Freedom campers

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568558" data-time="1459377619">
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I have no issue at all with coming down hard on those that abuse our freecamping laws. Impound vehicles, big fines, stop them at the border until they pay up etc.
 
Putting stronger disincentives in place may deter a few and also provide local councils with an incentive to enforce.
 
What I find strange is that some of the biggest moaners are camp owners who, with a bit of thought, could benefit from this group by providing their basic needs at a budget price.
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Thats pretty much what I've been saying all along, not sure why you got so worked up.
 
Just out of interest what do you think would be a price that would get them to stay in motor camps? I'd imagine a camp would pay a decent amount in rates and wouldn't be a year round money making proposition and when you stay there you get a basic kitchen, toilets, power ,showers and a degree of safety .

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="568712" data-time="1459415824">
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To be honest I don't even know if internet cafes are still a thing but it would certainly rankle if you were living in an area that was frequented by parasites overloading the services you provided for them while spending fuckall and you happened to spy a bunch of them using your ratepayer supplied wifi they'd heard was available free on facebook.
 
 
 As for the part in bold when I was in Australia I had the misfortune to live and work with a lot of these people, hence my distaste for their behaviour, I'm not sure its really a tiny minority.
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It's a % of the minority of freedom campers, who number 12,000 at most according to the Motorhome/Camper NZ guy (who is anti them) on Radiolive, which is less than 1% of our total tourist numbers.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="568715" data-time="1459416626">
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It's a % of the minority of freedom campers, who number 12,000 at most according to the Motorhome/Camper NZ guy (who is anti them) on Radiolive, which is less than 1% of our total tourist numbers. 
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I'd actually be interested in seeing if anyones done some research into them , what sort of stuff they want to do here, how they heard about it and what sort of numbers are giving the rest of them a bad name . It would obviously vary alot throughout the year but like all these things its a few fuckwits who ruin it for everyone else.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="568717" data-time="1459417176">
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I'd actually be interested in seeing if anyones done some research into them , what sort of stuff they want to do here, how they heard about it and what sort of numbers are giving the rest of them a bad name . It would obviously vary alot throughout the year but like all these things its a few fuckwits who ruin it for everyone else.
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There's a PhD topic for someone - should be able to grab up some funding from MBIE, Motorhome type associations etc - although by the time they get their proposal done the media might have run the freedom campers out of the country.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="568713" data-time="1459416010">
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Thats pretty much what I've been saying all along, not sure why you got so worked up.
 
Just out of interest what do you think would be a price that would get them to stay in motor camps? I'd imagine a camp would pay a decent amount in rates and wouldn't be a year round money making proposition and when you stay there you get a basic kitchen, toilets, power ,showers and a degree of safety . 
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Not quite. You were advocating discouraging all use of freedom camping.
 
As for campgrounds it may just take a bit of lateral thinking and cooperation from councils. Camping grounds do pay a lot for the largish pieces of land they own but that land also sits mainly empty for most of the year. It wouldn't take too much thought and effort to form a group and have off-season bulk rates sold through rental companies as a pre-purchase offer and the security of being able to ban/forfeit use for those that are undesirable.
Pretty simple to keep these groups in a certain area of the camp. Why not have these campers inside your gate paying $20 rather than parked down the road. If you supplied access to toilets, showers (metered), rubbish disposal, some power outlets for charging stuff and free wifi at that price you would capture quite a few. Sure there is a bit for work for you in cleaning and some added costs, but even at breakeven point you improve your cashflow. Profit would, of course, be even more desirable. However, through a whole lifetime of camping I can also attest to campground owners being a very odd breed of people in general so this is probably expecting a bit much.
 
 
At peak times it is near impossible for travelling campers to actually get into commercial camps. The few that set a couple of sites aside for overnight stays get snapped up early in the day. This is where councils could save themselves a lot of angst by setting up temporary low cost areas at zero net cost rather than chasing around trying to manage those camping illegally.
Nelson is a town that has embraced and worked with campers to a good result. They offer overnight camping in council carparks in the centre of town where they already have security and toilets.
As for your comment about people freeloading on ratepayer paid wifi, you may as well say they shouldn't use the roads as well. Think of the internet as infrastructure. Even hotels (often the slowest at removing add on charges) provide free wifi now. The set up and monthly cost is minimal for councils to provide hotspots at places like information centres. Most packages are unlimited so it doesn't matter if you have a local senior citizen checking an email or 50 tourists Skyping, and with most being fibre connected bandwidth isn't an issue.
Meanwhile these 'freeloading tourists' are telling others back in their countries to come on over as well. Putting their photos on facebook etc. Word of mouth publicity that adds to the tourism marketing for free.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568789" data-time="1459451042">
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Not quite. You were advocating discouraging all use of freedom camping.
 
As for campgrounds it may just take a bit of lateral thinking and cooperation from councils. Camping grounds do pay a lot for the largish pieces of land they own but that land also sits mainly empty for most of the year. It wouldn't take too much thought and effort to form a group and have off-season bulk rates sold through rental companies as a pre-purchase offer and the security of being able to ban/forfeit use for those that are undesirable.
Pretty simple to keep these groups in a certain area of the camp. Why not have these campers inside your gate paying $20 rather than parked down the road. If you supplied access to toilets, showers (metered), rubbish disposal, some power outlets for charging stuff and free wifi at that price you would capture quite a few. Sure there is a bit for work for you in cleaning and some added costs, but even at breakeven point you improve your cashflow. Profit would, of course, be even more desirable. However, through a whole lifetime of camping I can also attest to campground owners being a very odd breed of people in general so this is probably expecting a bit much.
 
 
At peak times it is near impossible for travelling campers to actually get into commercial camps. The few that set a couple of sites aside for overnight stays get snapped up early in the day. This is where councils could save themselves a lot of angst by setting up temporary low cost areas at zero net cost rather than chasing around trying to manage those camping illegally.
Nelson is a town that has embraced and worked with campers to a good result. They offer overnight camping in council carparks in the centre of town where they already have security and toilets.
As for your comment about people freeloading on ratepayer paid wifi, you may as well say they shouldn't use the roads as well. Think of the internet as infrastructure. Even hotels (often the slowest at removing add on charges) provide free wifi now. The set up and monthly cost is minimal for councils to provide hotspots at places like information centres. Most packages are unlimited so it doesn't matter if you have a local senior citizen checking an email or 50 tourists Skyping, and with most being fibre connected bandwidth isn't an issue.
Meanwhile these 'freeloading tourists' are telling others back in their countries to come on over as well. Putting their photos on facebook etc. Word of mouth publicity that adds to the tourism marketing for free.
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I would be quite happy to see freedom camping discouraged, obviously this is pretty much impossible. I do maintain they aren't the tourists we should be targetting or encouraging at all, they are inevitable and if they do come they should know whats expected of them. If they can find out on facebook that theres free wifi outside the Blenheim library so they can tweet the ten most scenic places they've taken a public dump I'm equally sure if a couple of them park overnight in a spot with a sign that warns them they'll be fined $500 if they camp overnight in a van that doesn't have a toilet and then when they try to leave customs has their details and informs them they are stuck here until they pay up word will get around equally fast . I reckon they ones who are discouraged by that are the exact fuckwits we don't want anyway so its no loss.
My issue is theres a really fine line between a budget traveller who wants to see NZ which I do understand and someone who sees us as a soft touch to travel around while contributing fuck all and being a feral in the knowledge they'll never be answerable for it.You asked if I have ever had a beer with them, I worked and lived with quite a few for a year in Australia and I think I have a fair idea of what they are like. It occurred to me at the time if they behave like this here what sort of crap are they doing in NZ? 
 
The numbers Nepia quoted were way off according to the mbie its actually 60000 <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77845470/60000-international-tourists-give-freedom-camping-a-go'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77845470/60000-international-tourists-give-freedom-camping-a-go</a> The article says it really got started in about 2002 
So far they have $1.5 mill in unpaid fines too , thats bullshit. .<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78464457/illegal-freedom-campers-owe-more-than-15-million-in-fines'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78464457/illegal-freedom-campers-owe-more-than-15-million-in-fines</a>

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="568887" data-time="1459491224">
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I would be quite happy to see freedom camping discouraged, obviously this is pretty much impossible. I do maintain they aren't the tourists we should be targetting or encouraging at all, they are inevitable and if they do come they should know whats expected of them. If they can find out on facebook that theres free wifi outside the Blenheim library so they can tweet the ten most scenic places they've taken a public dump I'm equally sure if a couple of them park overnight in a spot with a sign that warns them they'll be fined $500 if they camp overnight in a van that doesn't have a toilet and then when they try to leave customs has their details and informs them they are stuck here until they pay up word will get around equally fast . I reckon they ones who are discouraged by that are the exact fuckwits we don't want anyway so its no loss.
My issue is theres a really fine line between a budget traveller who wants to see NZ which I do understand and someone who sees us as a soft touch to travel around while contributing fuck all and being a feral in the knowledge they'll never be answerable for it.You asked if I have ever had a beer with them, I worked and lived with quite a few for a year in Australia and I think I have a fair idea of what they are like. It occurred to me at the time if they behave like this here what sort of crap are they doing in NZ? 
 
The numbers Nepia quoted were way off according to the mbie its actually 60000 <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77845470/60000-international-tourists-give-freedom-camping-a-go'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77845470/60000-international-tourists-give-freedom-camping-a-go</a> The article says it really got started in about 2002
So far they have $1.5 mill in unpaid fines too , thats bullshit. .<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78464457/illegal-freedom-campers-owe-more-than-15-million-in-fines'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78464457/illegal-freedom-campers-owe-more-than-15-million-in-fines</a>
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It says that freedom camping is the main form of accomodation for 12,000 - which I assume is the figure that the Motorhome guy was talking about, and the rest do 'some' freedom camping.

taniwharugby

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/themes/beaches/79063404/driftwood-hut-on-nelsons-tahunanui-beach-a-labour-of-love-for-freedom-campers'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/themes/beaches/79063404/driftwood-hut-on-nelsons-tahunanui-beach-a-labour-of-love-for-freedom-campers</a>
 
A positive story....although some comments bring back the painful reality of the internet

dogmeat

Grey nomads freedom camp too
 
Plenty of freedom campers round East Cape without too many issues cos local Regional Council manages it properly
 
I doubt its the freedom campers who are chucking old cars, fridges, TV's etc just off the road all over NZ. There's plenty of locals whose attitudes haven't changed in 50 years and who therefore think rural NZ is one large refuse facility.
 
As for boaties.....
 
This whole issue smells of media beat-up to me. Yeah there's some asswipes who give the majority a bad name but I don't think overall the situation is as crappy as portrayed in some outlets.
 
â€‹( 4 bad puns in one paragraph! ) :yes:

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="573355" data-time="1461019130">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/themes/beaches/79063404/driftwood-hut-on-nelsons-tahunanui-beach-a-labour-of-love-for-freedom-campers'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/themes/beaches/79063404/driftwood-hut-on-nelsons-tahunanui-beach-a-labour-of-love-for-freedom-campers</a>
 
A positive story....although some comments bring back the painful reality of the internet
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This bit made me chuckle:
 
"The hut is fully equipped with a working sundial in front and shell artwork inside."

The Silver Fern

Freedom campers