All Blacks vs Fiji
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@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@kev Last camera angle shows direct contact with the head. Dmac lowering body position is mitigation. I think it should have been a yellow.
My main thing was initial contact was body to body and he didn’t aim high. Mixed thoughts - protect the player, but for me it was a great dominant tackle. That’s what Rugby is about.
@kev said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@kev Last camera angle shows direct contact with the head. Dmac lowering body position is mitigation. I think it should have been a yellow.
My main thing was initial contact was body to body and he didn’t aim high.
Yes there's an argument for Botia's chest contacting McKenzie's shoulder first, and the blond hair suggestions around makes it look worse than it is.
Need the reverse angle.
If it was head on head, at least one player's reaction would have been different. If it was shoulder to head, I don't think McKenzie's getting up that quickly.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I have doubts about Vaa'i. He was physically dominated by the Blues locks during the SRTT final. He is still very young, though.
Could PPP step up ? He is the only young lock with a frame required at the highest level.
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Glad Coles is on. Seems craftier than Taylor.
I reckon he will create a try scoring record
@nevorian said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Glad Coles is on. Seems craftier than Taylor.
I reckon he will create a try scoring record
Ha!
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@steven-harris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Really enjoyed this contest ,seeing another repeat of last week would have done nothing for anyone..
Fiji really bought it physically showing the benefits of many of their forwards especially playing in France and Europe in general but I suspect being stuck in isolation and lack preparation finally told especially in and around breakdown accuracy and discipline..All Blacks looked better when both Whitelock and Coles were on the field ..but in terms of consistency I thought Ethan Blackadder playing in the unfamiliar jersey was very solid ..biggest disappointments to me where Sotutu,Tuipulotu and Frizzell..Agree on those three. Also thought Taylor lacked accuracy and the starting two props looked lost out there too.
This! Absolutely this. We have to start developing props that can be successful at set piece and contribute around the field.
It was concerning that Laulala found himself out of position in the line on a few occasions. Not sure how many rucks he hit but he didn’t seem to be prominent on that front. An off night for sure.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@steven-harris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Really enjoyed this contest ,seeing another repeat of last week would have done nothing for anyone..
Fiji really bought it physically showing the benefits of many of their forwards especially playing in France and Europe in general but I suspect being stuck in isolation and lack preparation finally told especially in and around breakdown accuracy and discipline..All Blacks looked better when both Whitelock and Coles were on the field ..but in terms of consistency I thought Ethan Blackadder playing in the unfamiliar jersey was very solid ..biggest disappointments to me where Sotutu,Tuipulotu and Frizzell..Agree on those three. Also thought Taylor lacked accuracy and the starting two props looked lost out there too.
This! Absolutely this. We have to start developing props that can be successful at set piece and contribute around the field.
It was concerning that Laulala found himself out of position in the line on a few occasions. Not sure how many rucks he hit but he didn’t seem to be prominent on that front. An off night for sure.
Laulala has never been that mobile.
A broken-down tractor at a nightclub has more moves. -
@kev said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@kev Last camera angle shows direct contact with the head. Dmac lowering body position is mitigation. I think it should have been a yellow.
My main thing was initial contact was body to body and he didn’t aim high.
Yes there's an argument for Botia's chest contacting McKenzie's shoulder first, and the blond hair suggestions around makes it look worse than it is.
Need the reverse angle.
If it was head on head, at least one player's reaction would have been different. If it was shoulder to head, I don't think McKenzie's getting up that quickly.
@nta said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@kev said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@kev Last camera angle shows direct contact with the head. Dmac lowering body position is mitigation. I think it should have been a yellow.
My main thing was initial contact was body to body and he didn’t aim high.
Yes there's an argument for Botia's chest contacting McKenzie's shoulder first, and the blond hair suggestions around makes it look worse than it is.
Need the reverse angle.
If it was head on head, at least one player's reaction would have been different. If it was shoulder to head, I don't think McKenzie's getting up that quickly.
I'd have to see it again but it looked to me that Botia had his arms up as if he was going to tackle but never even tried to actually wrap-the arms were just there for show.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I have doubts about Vaa'i. He was physically dominated by the Blues locks during the SRTT final. He is still very young, though.
Could PPP step up ? He is the only young lock with a frame required at the highest level.
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I have doubts about Vaa'i. He was physically dominated by the Blues locks during the SRTT final. He is still very young, though.
Could PPP step up ? He is the only young lock with a frame required at the highest level.
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.PPP is a project I reckon.
Vaa'i-well, one of those SRTT final Blues locks doesn't seem that physical at test level. Perhaps it was partly down to GCT? -
@Rancid-Schnitzel James Ryan
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Will give my tuppence before reading the thread.
Firstly, I expect an incredible amount of anti Foster rhetoric. We didn't completely annihilate them equals Foster is useless. Appoint Joseph/Rennie/Robertson/anyone because FDS.
From my point of view:
How good were Fiji?
Big, physical, athletic, fully professional players.
Not a mug amongst them.
Their work at the breakdown in particular was excellent. Something the ABs will need to sort . Can't allow that looseness going forward..
We did enough and stayed ahead.
Difficult to pick POTM contenders out of that.
Thought Fiji 12 (Botia)lucky to escape review for the hit on DMac
More as I think of it
Quite enjoyed
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I'm a big Pat T fan and he deserves huge credit for his leadership at the Blues, but it really hasn't translated at Test level. He's had a couple of great games in Black where he's stepped up the plate, but he's too inconsistent and makes too many errors.
Doesn't need to be flash, just solid and he seems to lack a bit of the latter
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I'm a big Pat T fan and he deserves huge credit for his leadership at the Blues, but it really hasn't translated at Test level. He's had a couple of great games in Black where he's stepped up the plate, but he's too inconsistent and makes too many errors.
Doesn't need to be flash, just solid and he seems to lack a bit of the latter
His best moments in black have always been off the bench and no that role he’s played some important roles in late victories and really asserted himself physically including against big Bok and English packs. That may still be the best use of him at this level
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@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
Sevu Reece has entered the chat
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@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
Just so we're clear I'm not Highlanders biased before I get cute about MSR - I think he should be nowhere near the ABs because of his behaviour off the field.
But, as others point out, All Blacks coaches play fast and loose with the "no dickheads" policy as they please.
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
Just so we're clear I'm not Highlanders biased before I get cute about MSR - I think he should be nowhere near the ABs because of his behaviour off the field.
But, as others point out, All Blacks coaches play fast and loose with the "no dickheads" policy as they please.
@smudge said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
MSR looks to have the necessary mongrel but he is quite lean.
Hasn't done shit at Super Rugby level, and is down the order at the Highlanders. Very overrated player in NZ, and is a scumbag criminal. Will never get near the All Blacks.
Just so we're clear I'm not Highlanders biased before I get cute about MSR - I think he should be nowhere near the ABs because of his behaviour off the field.
But, as others point out, All Blacks coaches play fast and loose with the "no dickheads" policy as they please.
Yes, that policy only applies when they don't like someone.
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Stat chat:
Leading the team in runs - BBBR and Roane with 10 each.
Rieko had 57 meters and 7 passes indicating that he’s growing into the center position.
Although he was a bit average, you cant beat the effort from BBBR who also had 24 meters (leading the starting five, which is OK but kind of highlights the problem we have with getting running meters)
Off the bench, Whitelock had five runs for 38 meters including a clean break, 1 defender beaten, and an offload.
Effort.
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Stat chat:
Leading the team in runs - BBBR and Roane with 10 each.
Rieko had 57 meters and 7 passes indicating that he’s growing into the center position.
Although he was a bit average, you cant beat the effort from BBBR who also had 24 meters (leading the starting five, which is OK but kind of highlights the problem we have with getting running meters)
Off the bench, Whitelock had five runs for 38 meters including a clean break, 1 defender beaten, and an offload.
Effort.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Stat chat:
Leading the team in runs - BBBR and Roane with 10 each.
Rieko had 57 meters and 7 passes indicating that he’s growing into the center position.
Although he was a bit average, you cant beat the effort from BBBR who also had 24 meters (leading the starting five, which is OK but kind of highlights the problem we have with getting running meters)
Off the bench, Whitelock had five runs for 38 meters including a clean break, 1 defender beaten, and an offload.
Effort.
For the minutes you kind of just proved one can beat BBBR's effort -Whitelock- but hey he wasn't international test-level fit. And that steal/strip was great (stupid backs)...
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Stat chat:
Leading the team in runs - BBBR and Roane with 10 each.
Rieko had 57 meters and 7 passes indicating that he’s growing into the center position.
Although he was a bit average, you cant beat the effort from BBBR who also had 24 meters (leading the starting five, which is OK but kind of highlights the problem we have with getting running meters)
Off the bench, Whitelock had five runs for 38 meters including a clean break, 1 defender beaten, and an offload.
Effort.
For the minutes you kind of just proved one can beat BBBR's effort -Whitelock- but hey he wasn't international test-level fit. And that steal/strip was great (stupid backs)...
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Stat chat:
Leading the team in runs - BBBR and Roane with 10 each.
Rieko had 57 meters and 7 passes indicating that he’s growing into the center position.
Although he was a bit average, you cant beat the effort from BBBR who also had 24 meters (leading the starting five, which is OK but kind of highlights the problem we have with getting running meters)
Off the bench, Whitelock had five runs for 38 meters including a clean break, 1 defender beaten, and an offload.
Effort.
For the minutes you kind of just proved one can beat BBBR's effort -Whitelock- but hey he wasn't international test-level fit. And that steal/strip was great (stupid backs)...
I guess the point is that things are easier for the bench players against a tiring team. Your point stands though - I gave Whitelock a vote and not BBBR.
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Stat chat:
Leading the team in runs - BBBR and Roane with 10 each.
Rieko had 57 meters and 7 passes indicating that he’s growing into the center position.
Although he was a bit average, you cant beat the effort from BBBR who also had 24 meters (leading the starting five, which is OK but kind of highlights the problem we have with getting running meters)
Off the bench, Whitelock had five runs for 38 meters including a clean break, 1 defender beaten, and an offload.
Effort.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
BBBR
He was one of our best players, but he needs to improve massively based on tonight's showing. Was involved in one decent physical play, otherwise was really lackluster.
@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
BBBR
He was one of our best players, but he needs to improve massively based on tonight's showing. Was involved in one decent physical play, otherwise was really lackluster.
I mean, he's one we can give a pass mark to because he'll get better with the outing, surely?
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
BBBR
He was one of our best players, but he needs to improve massively based on tonight's showing. Was involved in one decent physical play, otherwise was really lackluster.
I mean, he's one we can give a pass mark to because he'll get better with the outing, surely?
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BBBR tried. He was at least the second best lock on the paddock, not sure how much support he got.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I'm a big Pat T fan and he deserves huge credit for his leadership at the Blues, but it really hasn't translated at Test level. He's had a couple of great games in Black where he's stepped up the plate, but he's too inconsistent and makes too many errors.
Doesn't need to be flash, just solid and he seems to lack a bit of the latter
His best moments in black have always been off the bench and no that role he’s played some important roles in late victories and really asserted himself physically including against big Bok and English packs. That may still be the best use of him at this level
@junior said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Lots of Frizzel comments and I agree but Pat T as well. Too many chances, been part of some poor AB losses. The guy has serious mana but we need to move on and get Vaai (sp?) or even Robinson in there. Someone who is all elbows and shoulders.
I'm a big Pat T fan and he deserves huge credit for his leadership at the Blues, but it really hasn't translated at Test level. He's had a couple of great games in Black where he's stepped up the plate, but he's too inconsistent and makes too many errors.
Doesn't need to be flash, just solid and he seems to lack a bit of the latter
His best moments in black have always been off the bench and no that role he’s played some important roles in late victories and really asserted himself physically including against big Bok and English packs. That may still be the best use of him at this level
I guess I'm a bit disappointed that he hasn't grown into more that a impact player off the bench.
