All Blacks vs Fiji
-
Our tight five were pretty damn impotent for 50 odd minutes, makes it hard to guage the rest.
Blackadder was fucking everywhere, it was awesome, but didn't exactly have much of an impact a fair bit of the time - how different would that be with a functioning tight five?
Frizzel was anonymous, Sotutu often ineffective, even Smith seemed to disappear into the mehther.
I really don't see what Bridge is doing that pretty much any other back (or a lot of forwards) can't do. Good timing hitting the line to throw a pass.... unless there's a defender near and then the movement dies with you. If that's what we want from our left wing then Havili is a million times better option.
@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Blackadder was fucking everywhere, it was awesome, but didn't exactly have much of an impact a fair bit of the time - how different would that be with a functioning tight five?
Frizzel was anonymous, Sotutu often ineffective, even Smith seemed to disappear into the mehther.
Blackadder's one of those guys who is always giving 100% - but, from memory, that's probably about the second game he's started in the 7 jersey in three years. In his early days with the Mako, I think he had a few more games there.
I think I'm right though that Foster has mainly picked him as a utility loosie, with Frizell and Akira as 6s; Ardie and Papali'i as 7s; and Jacobson and Sotutu as 8s. With Ardie, Dalton and Sam Cane injured, they could have called up (probably) Billy Harmon as a specialist 7, but more valuable to give Ethan the run. Billy is at best the number 4 openside (he could be behind Christie as well) in the country, so won't be required often.
Shannon didn't do much with ball in hand, but I see according to ESPN that he topped the tackle count (Stat Chat
) - one ahead of Ethan. I guess to give him a bit of a break, it was his first game in 6 weeks. -
@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Blackadder was fucking everywhere, it was awesome, but didn't exactly have much of an impact a fair bit of the time - how different would that be with a functioning tight five?
Frizzel was anonymous, Sotutu often ineffective, even Smith seemed to disappear into the mehther.
Blackadder's one of those guys who is always giving 100% - but, from memory, that's probably about the second game he's started in the 7 jersey in three years. In his early days with the Mako, I think he had a few more games there.
I think I'm right though that Foster has mainly picked him as a utility loosie, with Frizell and Akira as 6s; Ardie and Papali'i as 7s; and Jacobson and Sotutu as 8s. With Ardie, Dalton and Sam Cane injured, they could have called up (probably) Billy Harmon as a specialist 7, but more valuable to give Ethan the run. Billy is at best the number 4 openside (he could be behind Christie as well) in the country, so won't be required often.
Shannon didn't do much with ball in hand, but I see according to ESPN that he topped the tackle count (Stat Chat
) - one ahead of Ethan. I guess to give him a bit of a break, it was his first game in 6 weeks.@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Shannon didn't do much with ball in hand, but I see according to ESPN that he topped the tackle count (Stat Chat
) - one ahead of Ethan. I guess to give him a bit of a break, it was his first game in 6 weeks.I did mention that somewhere in this thread that he was doing a lot of tackling.
-
I think next week's test will be a big indicator on the coaching team, and hopefully the board are taking notes. They've come out previously and said physicality is a work on this year (again) and not improved it. They've said it's 'great' that the ABs got beasted at the break down, as it gives them something to work on for next week 'we will fix it'. Fiji are at the end of a long, long season and big trip back here, it'll be hard for them to make real gains from another week training. Unlike the ABs, who the only way should be up.
So if there's is not a massive improvement in that area, the coaching team have obviously not got what it takes and need replacement. At least it is another massive nail in a coffin that should have been buried post RWC 19
-
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
So ABs always had 60+ on Fiji, another great record for Foster's ABs
Didn't score 60. Sack him.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
So ABs always had 60+ on Fiji, another great record for Foster's ABs
Didn't score 60. Sack him.
For at least 50 minutes our pack was getting outmuscled by Fiji. Against a tier 1 team we'll find ourselves well behind on the scorecard if that happens.
In the end our depth on the bench and the fact Fiji had just done bloody MIQ meant we ran over the top of them when they inevitably tired. That won't happen against tier 1 teams.
Absolutely nothing about that performance showed me we have learnt a single damn thing from our RWC exit and then first ever loss to Argentina among other very poor performances last year.
It seems clear we won't improve under this coaching team, and our ranking in the world will hover around 3rd or 4th which reflects the way we are playing. We're going to have to get used to that until someone like Robertson or Rennie takes the helm.
-
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Shannon didn't do much with ball in hand, but I see according to ESPN that he topped the tackle count (Stat Chat
) - one ahead of Ethan. I guess to give him a bit of a break, it was his first game in 6 weeks.I did mention that somewhere in this thread that he was doing a lot of tackling.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Shannon didn't do much with ball in hand, but I see according to ESPN that he topped the tackle count (Stat Chat
) - one ahead of Ethan. I guess to give him a bit of a break, it was his first game in 6 weeks.I did mention that somewhere in this thread that he was doing a lot of tackling.
And I see ESPN has revised their tackle stats since last night and he doesn't anymore - he's 2nd equal with Ethan - behind BBBR.
-
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
So ABs always had 60+ on Fiji, another great record for Foster's ABs
Didn't score 60. Sack him.
For at least 50 minutes our pack was getting outmuscled by Fiji. Against a tier 1 team we'll find ourselves well behind on the scorecard if that happens.
In the end our depth on the bench and the fact Fiji had just done bloody MIQ meant we ran over the top of them when they inevitably tired. That won't happen against tier 1 teams.
Absolutely nothing about that performance showed me we have learnt a single damn thing from our RWC exit and then first ever loss to Argentina among other very poor performances last year.
It seems clear we won't improve under this coaching team, and our ranking in the world will hover around 3rd or 4th which reflects the way we are playing. We're going to have to get used to that until someone like Robertson or Rennie takes the helm.
@no-quarter To be fair, we've largely split our squad in two to play Tonga and Fiji - and we've also got a fair number of our first choice players unavailable through injury, etc.
That's also effectively the first test of the year for most of the guys who played - and many of them will never have played together before - e.g. Beauden, Havili, Rieko.
I don't think that test signifies much, really. We have to wait to play the Tier 1s to see how we go against the Tier 1s.*
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
-
@no-quarter To be fair, we've largely split our squad in two to play Tonga and Fiji - and we've also got a fair number of our first choice players unavailable through injury, etc.
That's also effectively the first test of the year for most of the guys who played - and many of them will never have played together before - e.g. Beauden, Havili, Rieko.
I don't think that test signifies much, really. We have to wait to play the Tier 1s to see how we go against the Tier 1s.*
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
-
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches. -
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
So ABs always had 60+ on Fiji, another great record for Foster's ABs
Didn't score 60. Sack him.
For at least 50 minutes our pack was getting outmuscled by Fiji. Against a tier 1 team we'll find ourselves well behind on the scorecard if that happens.
In the end our depth on the bench and the fact Fiji had just done bloody MIQ meant we ran over the top of them when they inevitably tired. That won't happen against tier 1 teams.
Absolutely nothing about that performance showed me we have learnt a single damn thing from our RWC exit and then first ever loss to Argentina among other very poor performances last year.
It seems clear we won't improve under this coaching team, and our ranking in the world will hover around 3rd or 4th which reflects the way we are playing. We're going to have to get used to that until someone like Robertson or Rennie takes the helm.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
So ABs always had 60+ on Fiji, another great record for Foster's ABs
Didn't score 60. Sack him.
For at least 50 minutes our pack was getting outmuscled by Fiji. Against a tier 1 team we'll find ourselves well behind on the scorecard if that happens.
In the end our depth on the bench and the fact Fiji had just done bloody MIQ meant we ran over the top of them when they inevitably tired. That won't happen against tier 1 teams.
Absolutely nothing about that performance showed me we have learnt a single damn thing from our RWC exit and then first ever loss to Argentina among other very poor performances last year.
It seems clear we won't improve under this coaching team, and our ranking in the world will hover around 3rd or 4th which reflects the way we are playing. We're going to have to get used to that until someone like Robertson or Rennie takes the helm.
Absolutely agree get rid of these idiots.
-
The last 2 teams has reminded me of way back when the All Blacks could actually do that, silly thing is though they at least did it over a period of time and brought in new players with experienced and form players. I think when a team is picked like this it's actually not fair to point the finger at individuals, but would like to see more support in roles ie Blackadder with 2 other form or experienced loosies or Patrick T with Sam W and Carl T with Ofa etc etc - yes I Know injuries but you hopefully get the concept (stop setting up players to fail)
-
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
The new Fern signature
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
The new Fern signature
Anything else is wrongthink
- Nothing in this post should be construed as an endorsement or otherwise of Foster & Co.
-
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
But what disturbs me is the game plan. It looks as though they have decided the way to beat modern defences is to play helter skelter from the get go. Our players are not good enough to consistently win that way under pressure. Surely the last few years have shown us that.
-
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
But what disturbs me is the game plan. It looks as though they have decided the way to beat modern defences is to play helter skelter from the get go. Our players are not good enough to consistently win that way under pressure. Surely the last few years have shown us that.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
But what disturbs me is the game plan. It looks as though they have decided the way to beat modern defences is to play helter skelter from the get go. Our players are not good enough to consistently win that way under pressure. Surely the last few years have shown us that.
That is what worries me,We are not progressing or learning anything.
-
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
But what disturbs me is the game plan. It looks as though they have decided the way to beat modern defences is to play helter skelter from the get go. Our players are not good enough to consistently win that way under pressure. Surely the last few years have shown us that.
That is what worries me,We are not progressing or learning anything.
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
But what disturbs me is the game plan. It looks as though they have decided the way to beat modern defences is to play helter skelter from the get go. Our players are not good enough to consistently win that way under pressure. Surely the last few years have shown us that.
That is what worries me,We are not progressing or learning anything.
And our selections suggest we are going to go further down the rabbit hole. We don't ave traditional wings, our centre is not a traditional centre, our 15 is a hybrid 10/15, we had a 6 playing at 7. I suppose we should be grateful we had a specialist tight five.
Who knows, Foster could be a genius and we need to be patient!
-
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
-
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
….and leave Bridge out ? Are you crazy ? Who will be the playmaker ?
-
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
The fallacy of statistics.
Reece did two good things all game that resulted in those numbers.
One (very good) run probably accounted for 5 defenders and 50 metres. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
The fallacy of statistics.
Reece did two good things all game that resulted in those numbers.
One (very good) run probably accounted for 5 defenders and 50 metres.@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
The fallacy of statistics.
Reece did two good things all game that resulted in those numbers.
One (very good) run probably accounted for 5 defenders and 50 metres.With respect to outside backs, isn’t that often the way it goes? If we just want these guys to cart it up and take the tackle, we’ve already got our staying left wing sorted.
-
Is Reece a must-start winger?
Sevu Reece led the team in defenders beaten (7) and had two clean breaks with 66 metres (2nd in the team to Roane with 81).
Reece also made eight tackles (most in the backline), but missed three (leading the team, and including one that directly led to a try) plus had two turnovers.
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
And that's how they finished the game when Jordan came on for Bridge.
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Right now, I think he is first winger selected but should probably go to the left wing with Jordan on the right.
And that's how they finished the game when Jordan came on for Bridge.
Seems the obvious way to go (so no doubt they won’t do it).
Longer term, I wonder if his (Reece’s) inaccuracies will see a Nareki get a go in that case?
His boot could be very useful and he plays a similar game.
We also have Rayasi to develop and Clarke to come back.
