All Blacks vs Fiji 2

Bones

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

the thing that makes me wonder about foster the most

areas like loosies and midfield, we're trying to find new incumbents...but he never plays the same combos more than once, play Ioane 3-4 time in a row, let him settle in! playing someone for one games...then not even 23, then bench, then starting again is never going to get the comfortable

There was no need to play frizell on sat, i like him, think he doesn't get enough credit around here...but we know what he can do int the black jersey, we dont need to keep testing him

Injuries have played a huge part in the midfield selections over the past number of years. Plus the fact we came to the end of a period where we had two pretty durable players in Smith and Nonu that were constants for a long time.

During that era though we did try a number of players around those two, with mixed success mind you.

Trying to find that right combination with players that have relative inexperience, plus injuries, is not an easy one for the coaches, whether that be Henry, Hansen and now Foster.

Can't disagree with your comments on the problems the coaches have had, but Conrad & Ma'a departed 6 years ago and we've had an awful lot of buggering about and weird selections at 12/13 since then. How much time do they need?

Not blaming Foster for all of this and he needs a bit of time to decide on his midfield but at some stage in the very near future they need to decide on their top combinations and stick to them.

Well best at RWC2019 was SBW and JG with ALB off the bench, but they didn't pick that.

Currently it should be ALB and JG (with Rieko on the wing) but they can't pick that.

honestly, I'm not irrationally grumpy that Goodhue got played at 12. Like, way to screw up the previous No 1 centre. Damn.

Me neither. The reasoning was sound as! Ennor is a fine, fine centre - it makes perfect sense to move the best centre in the country to accommodate him.

Victor Meldrew

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew to be fair, it took a long time to settle on Ma'a-Conrad, IIRC it was something like 25 consecutive tests without ever starting the same pair.

Yep. We played a fullback at 13, tried a Flat Back Line approach (remember Casey Laulala?) and mucked about with Isaia Toeava.

But at some stage you have to stop experimenting, make a decision and stick to it.

nzzp

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew to be fair, it took a long time to settle on Ma'a-Conrad, IIRC it was something like 25 consecutive tests without ever starting the same pair.

and Ma'a had a horror start to his career against Ireland. Shocking defensive reads, and not showing signs he'd be the AB GOAT12

Stargazer

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Mo'unga doing the presser today, so he'll be starting. The question is whether BB plays and if so, where?

David Havili and Brad Weber, too.

Crazy Horse

I don't think we have settled on a midfield because no one has demanded the spot be theirs. It is all very saying pick a midfield and stick with it, but who should we have stuck with? All have had their ups and downs and all have their weaknesses. Ask 10 people and I reckon we would get nearly 10 different combinations.

nostrildamus

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I don't think we have settled on a midfield because no one has demanded the spot be theirs. It is all very saying pick a midfield and stick with it, but who should we have stuck with? All have had their ups and downs and all have their weaknesses. Ask 10 people and I reckon we would get nearly 10 different combinations.

Well most would have ALB there, I'd wager quite a few would have JG at 13 (if his form is still the same as last year) and very few would plump for Ennor in the midfield(at this stage) plus Laumape is not in contention so that starts to narrow down the possible combos...

Crazy Horse

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I don't think we have settled on a midfield because no one has demanded the spot be theirs. It is all very saying pick a midfield and stick with it, but who should we have stuck with? All have had their ups and downs and all have their weaknesses. Ask 10 people and I reckon we would get nearly 10 different combinations.

Well most would have ALB there, I'd wager quite a few would have JG at 13 (if his form is still the same as last year) and very few would plump for Ennor in the midfield(at this stage) plus Laumape is not in contention so that starts to narrow down the possible combos...

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I don't think we have settled on a midfield because no one has demanded the spot be theirs. It is all very saying pick a midfield and stick with it, but who should we have stuck with? All have had their ups and downs and all have their weaknesses. Ask 10 people and I reckon we would get nearly 10 different combinations.

Well most would have ALB there, I'd wager quite a few would have JG at 13 (if his form is still the same as last year) and very few would plump for Ennor in the midfield(at this stage) plus Laumape is not in contention so that starts to narrow down the possible combos...

True, that is the combo I would have liked to have seen more of, but ALB had a slight form dip for a while and JG's lack of pace is becoming a concern. The drums would have beaten for a change at some point.

gt12

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew to be fair, it took a long time to settle on Ma'a-Conrad, IIRC it was something like 25 consecutive tests without ever starting the same pair.

Yep. We played a fullback at 13, tried a Flat Back Line approach (remember Casey Laulala?) and mucked about with Isaia Toeava.

But at some stage you have to stop experimenting, make a decision and stick to it.

I know this is heresy, but Nonu is lucky that they didn't try Toeava at 12 and give him 5 tests there.

At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there).

gt12

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

the thing that makes me wonder about foster the most

areas like loosies and midfield, we're trying to find new incumbents...but he never plays the same combos more than once, play Ioane 3-4 time in a row, let him settle in! playing someone for one games...then not even 23, then bench, then starting again is never going to get the comfortable

There was no need to play frizell on sat, i like him, think he doesn't get enough credit around here...but we know what he can do int the black jersey, we dont need to keep testing him

Injuries have played a huge part in the midfield selections over the past number of years. Plus the fact we came to the end of a period where we had two pretty durable players in Smith and Nonu that were constants for a long time.

During that era though we did try a number of players around those two, with mixed success mind you.

Trying to find that right combination with players that have relative inexperience, plus injuries, is not an easy one for the coaches, whether that be Henry, Hansen and now Foster.

Can't disagree with your comments on the problems the coaches have had, but Conrad & Ma'a departed 6 years ago and we've had an awful lot of buggering about and weird selections at 12/13 since then. How much time do they need?

Not blaming Foster for all of this and he needs a bit of time to decide on his midfield but at some stage in the very near future they need to decide on their top combinations and stick to them.

Well best at RWC2019 was SBW and JG with ALB off the bench, but they didn't pick that.

Currently it should be ALB and JG (with Rieko on the wing) but they can't pick that.

I feel like the less this guy plays, the better he gets viewed.

It's been quite some time since he had a good test. I like him and I think he's world class, but ALB has a better body of work over the last few years, and so (perhaps) does Roane.

nzzp

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there).

Toeava was a sensational rugby player introduced very early with too high expectations.

And occasionally tits for hands.

Young players are young, and it shows. Rieko has only just turned 24 FFS, he's a baby in rugby terms.

Bones

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

the thing that makes me wonder about foster the most

areas like loosies and midfield, we're trying to find new incumbents...but he never plays the same combos more than once, play Ioane 3-4 time in a row, let him settle in! playing someone for one games...then not even 23, then bench, then starting again is never going to get the comfortable

There was no need to play frizell on sat, i like him, think he doesn't get enough credit around here...but we know what he can do int the black jersey, we dont need to keep testing him

Injuries have played a huge part in the midfield selections over the past number of years. Plus the fact we came to the end of a period where we had two pretty durable players in Smith and Nonu that were constants for a long time.

During that era though we did try a number of players around those two, with mixed success mind you.

Trying to find that right combination with players that have relative inexperience, plus injuries, is not an easy one for the coaches, whether that be Henry, Hansen and now Foster.

Can't disagree with your comments on the problems the coaches have had, but Conrad & Ma'a departed 6 years ago and we've had an awful lot of buggering about and weird selections at 12/13 since then. How much time do they need?

Not blaming Foster for all of this and he needs a bit of time to decide on his midfield but at some stage in the very near future they need to decide on their top combinations and stick to them.

Well best at RWC2019 was SBW and JG with ALB off the bench, but they didn't pick that.

Currently it should be ALB and JG (with Rieko on the wing) but they can't pick that.

I feel like the less this guy plays, the better he gets viewed.

It's been quite some time since he had a good test. I like him and I think he's world class, but ALB has a better body of work over the last few years, and so (perhaps) does Roane.

I don't - and I find it interesting his "lack of pace" is often mentioned, it'd be good to see an example of what this actually means. He was bloody good at centre as a young fella, if he'd have been allowed to stick there, I feel we might have seen a lot more come of him. But yeah at 12 he's a complete dud.

taniwharugby

@victor-meldrew McAllister, Mauger, Laulala, Umaga, Ma'a, Conrad, who else was there?

Oh I agree BTW, just saying....

ARHS

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Heading to this one. Will be the first time I've ever been to an All Blacks game.

I'll be there too but I've been to a few more tests. The first test I ever went to live also featured Fiji (vs Argentina at the 1987 RWC).

Let's hope there is a good crowd and the weather is OK.

Me too. Keen to see the double header

Victor Meldrew

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)

We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.

ACT Crusader

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew to be fair, it took a long time to settle on Ma'a-Conrad, IIRC it was something like 25 consecutive tests without ever starting the same pair.

Yep. We played a fullback at 13, tried a Flat Back Line approach (remember Casey Laulala?) and mucked about with Isaia Toeava.

But at some stage you have to stop experimenting, make a decision and stick to it.

I think there was a point where Crotty / ALB was the preferred pairing but Crotty was getting injured. Then when he came back from injury it seemed SBW plus one was the pairing.

And for what it’s worth I thought Mils was an excellent centre.

ACT Crusader

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)

We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.

@davidav radar just went off…

I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.

Best game I saw him play was over in South Africa, it was a quarter or semi final I think, he played in the midfield and was absolutely dominant.

gt12

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)

We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.

@davidav radar just went off…

I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.

Best game I saw him play was over in South Africa, it was a quarter or semi final I think, he played in the midfield and was absolutely dominant.

He played at 12 that night too.

Victor Meldrew

@act-crusader

I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.

Fair point, but I just don't think he was managed that well.

ACT Crusader

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@act-crusader

I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.

Fair point, but I just don't think he was managed that well.

And that’s a fair comment too. I think there have been a few other ABs in that category too.

gt12

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)

We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.

@davidav radar just went off…

I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.

Best game I saw him play was over in South Africa, it was a quarter or semi final I think, he played in the midfield and was absolutely dominant.

This one? He played at 12, created two, and went off injured (starts about 2:40 in):

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Fiji 2