All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug
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We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Spot on analysis.
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We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Havili is a genuine midfielder that can play fullback. I don’t mind our midfield stocks - ALB, Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Ioane and then Tups. I think the Jordie Barrett at 12 is fantasy.
Jordan has played a bit of both fullback and wing, so I think even at this stage of his career he would be akin to where Howlett was when he made the ABs - mainly wing for Super rugby and some fullback at NPC level.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
I drove 9 hours to sydney in 2014 to sit in the rain and watch the Allblacks draw with Wallabies 12 all in a shit game .
Made me think, if I had the option to jump in a car tonight, and drive somewhere to watch an ABs game and have a night out with mates, what's the line on kms I'd be prepared to travel?
Right now, I think I'd set the line at about 10,000kms.
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
I drove 9 hours to sydney in 2014 to sit in the rain and watch the Allblacks draw with Wallabies 12 all in a shit game .
Made me think, if I had the option to jump in a car tonight, and drive somewhere to watch an ABs game and have a night out with mates, what's the line on kms I'd be prepared to travel?
Right now, I think I'd set the line at about 10,000kms.
I would drive that far to see Foster resign in the post match news conference
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@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Havili is a genuine midfielder that can play fullback. I don’t mind our midfield stocks - ALB, Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Ioane and then Tups. I think the Jordie Barrett at 12 is fantasy.
Jordan has played a bit of both fullback and wing, so I think even at this stage of his career he would be akin to where Howlett was when he made the ABs - mainly wing for Super rugby and some fullback at NPC level.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Havili is a genuine midfielder that can play fullback. I don’t mind our midfield stocks - ALB, Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Ioane and then Tups. I think the Jordie Barrett at 12 is fantasy.
Jordan has played a bit of both fullback and wing, so I think even at this stage of his career he would be akin to where Howlett was when he made the ABs - mainly wing for Super rugby and some fullback at NPC level.
I agree with all of this, except that when we need Ennor on the bench (which is this week), he is nowhere to be seen.
So we should have had extra 13 cover in the original squad or just not selected him.
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We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time?
I assume he's the 5th midfielder picked in the squad which will explain why he's not getting gametime in the big match? I think they see ALB, Goodhue, Havilli and Ioane definitely ahead of him currently, and for some reason probably Ennor too.
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@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Havili is a genuine midfielder that can play fullback. I don’t mind our midfield stocks - ALB, Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Ioane and then Tups. I think the Jordie Barrett at 12 is fantasy.
Jordan has played a bit of both fullback and wing, so I think even at this stage of his career he would be akin to where Howlett was when he made the ABs - mainly wing for Super rugby and some fullback at NPC level.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Havili is a genuine midfielder that can play fullback. I don’t mind our midfield stocks - ALB, Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Ioane and then Tups. I think the Jordie Barrett at 12 is fantasy.
Jordan has played a bit of both fullback and wing, so I think even at this stage of his career he would be akin to where Howlett was when he made the ABs - mainly wing for Super rugby and some fullback at NPC level.
He's had one good season (this one) in the midfield, but his best work has been at fullback over his career. I think it's still his best role.
I don't consider Ioane a part of our midfield stocks at all - he's clearly twice the player on the wing - why swap a world-class wing for a passable centre?
Agree re J Barrett and Jordan, although I think Jordan can excel at fullback at test level.
My main point though, is why haven't we nurtured our midfield stocks? Why turn away established midfielders in order to raid our outside back pantry? Yes we have a glut of great outside backs, but why dilute that by trying to change their natural game to suit midfielding?
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
We have 3 fullbacks, 2 wings and 2 halves in the backline. I don't think they're bad selections for this game, but I think they're a serious reflection on who NZR have invested in for the centres in the last few years. Yes we have Goodhue and ALB and Ennor in the wings, but 3 midfielders is nowhere close to enough depth.
Honestly, who else is up and coming? Quinn Tupaea? So why isn't he getting game time? There's literally no-one else - Aso and Laumape have been pushed overseas, and most of the other prospects are still at least 3 years off test level. Blues only have two true midfielders in their entire squad for goodness sake.
We get annoyed at the trend of playing 10s at 15, but I think the trend of playing outside backs in the midfield is worse tbh. It's no wonder our backline seems so much more clunky than it should - we're using finishers as distributers.
Havili is a genuine midfielder that can play fullback. I don’t mind our midfield stocks - ALB, Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Ioane and then Tups. I think the Jordie Barrett at 12 is fantasy.
Jordan has played a bit of both fullback and wing, so I think even at this stage of his career he would be akin to where Howlett was when he made the ABs - mainly wing for Super rugby and some fullback at NPC level.
He's had one good season (this one) in the midfield, but his best work has been at fullback over his career. I think it's still his best role.
I don't consider Ioane a part of our midfield stocks at all - he's clearly twice the player on the wing - why swap a world-class wing for a passable centre?
Agree re J Barrett and Jordan, although I think Jordan can excel at fullback at test level.
My main point though, is why haven't we nurtured our midfield stocks? Why turn away established midfielders in order to raid our outside back pantry? Yes we have a glut of great outside backs, but why dilute that by trying to change their natural game to suit midfielding?
@delicatessen said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
Yes we have a glut of great outside backs, but why dilute that by trying to change their natural game to suit midfielding?
getting 1999 PTSD reading this
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just an "overall state of the game" thought based on this match
27 penalties awarded
Not sure the ball-in-play stat, but isn't it usually around 35 minutes? That ratio sounds way off from a viewing perspective
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Geez - do posters realise it is a 23 player game these days and the All Blacks learned over a decade ago that a lack of a plan B at RWC could have them out. Fern posters have gone on and on about not having plan B's too,
So, the current coaches are addressing this by training for scenarios where they lose a key player through injury or a card early, and making sure that the players slotting into another position can do so relatively seamlessly. Seems intelligent to me and a big tick for this regime. You can only have 8 on the bench. I have assumed that Jordie is seen as potential cover at 12 this week, else they would have most likely promoted Quinn Tupaea. There will be a planned scenario for the loss of any player.
The AB's will likely have a pecking order of 4 players minimum for any jersey number, and will do their best to build experience of each of those candidates in that jersey within the RWC leadup campaign. I see nothing wrong with that, and am happy for us not to be winning by 50 points with out best 15 playing 80 minutes every week, if we are progressing forward our troops for the RWC battle. Then, they will pick the best 23 players to deal with whatever the opposition are expected to throw at them that week, and will continue their admirable philosophy (big tick for current regime) of not picking players who are injured, but seeing it as an opportunity to further develop an understudy in preparation for what may come.
All these posts wanting Foster to be dumped for not keeping players in their preferred jersey number at all times would seem to based on nasty agendas and not on reason....
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Geez - do posters realise it is a 23 player game these days and the All Blacks learned over a decade ago that a lack of a plan B at RWC could have them out. Fern posters have gone on and on about not having plan B's too,
So, the current coaches are addressing this by training for scenarios where they lose a key player through injury or a card early, and making sure that the players slotting into another position can do so relatively seamlessly. Seems intelligent to me and a big tick for this regime. You can only have 8 on the bench. I have assumed that Jordie is seen as potential cover at 12 this week, else they would have most likely promoted Quinn Tupaea. There will be a planned scenario for the loss of any player.
The AB's will likely have a pecking order of 4 players minimum for any jersey number, and will do their best to build experience of each of those candidates in that jersey within the RWC leadup campaign. I see nothing wrong with that, and am happy for us not to be winning by 50 points with out best 15 playing 80 minutes every week, if we are progressing forward our troops for the RWC battle. Then, they will pick the best 23 players to deal with whatever the opposition are expected to throw at them that week, and will continue their admirable philosophy (big tick for current regime) of not picking players who are injured, but seeing it as an opportunity to further develop an understudy in preparation for what may come.
All these posts wanting Foster to be dumped for not keeping players in their preferred jersey number at all times would seem to based on nasty agendas and not on reason....
@arhs said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
All these posts wanting Foster to be dumped for not keeping players in their preferred jersey number at all times would seem to based on nasty agendas and not on reason....
There's nothing nasty about wanting the best possible players in their most preferred (and by that I mean what they're best at) positions.
I also reject the idea that you start hamstrung because your plan is to have a range of plans, rather than one really good one. Identify your bench better to cover for a player getting injured. Plan A, B and C didn't work against England. Certainly didn't work against Ireland and now we've lost to Argentina. What's next on this road trip to mediocrity?
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So with DMac off to Japan next year, will they start playing BB or JB at 15 now? I’m betting DMac onto the bench next week.
@darren said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
So with DMac off to Japan next year, will they start playing BB or JB at 15 now? I’m betting DMac onto the bench next week.
If he hasn't re-signed with NZ rugby, I don't see any reason why they should invest any more tests in him.
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So with DMac off to Japan next year, will they start playing BB or JB at 15 now? I’m betting DMac onto the bench next week.
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@darren They kept BB in the starting line-up last year, despite knowing he'd go to Japan instead of playing SR. I don't think Dmac not playing SR in 2022 will influence their selections.
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@darren They kept BB in the starting line-up last year, despite knowing he'd go to Japan instead of playing SR. I don't think Dmac not playing SR in 2022 will influence their selections.
He hasn't signed with NZR at all, so maybe like TJ
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@darren They kept BB in the starting line-up last year, despite knowing he'd go to Japan instead of playing SR. I don't think Dmac not playing SR in 2022 will influence their selections.
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@darren They kept BB in the starting line-up last year, despite knowing he'd go to Japan instead of playing SR. I don't think Dmac not playing SR in 2022 will influence their selections.
Different situation if he hasn't signed with NZ rugby.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@darren They kept BB in the starting line-up last year, despite knowing he'd go to Japan instead of playing SR. I don't think Dmac not playing SR in 2022 will influence their selections.
Different situation if he hasn't signed with NZ rugby.
On DMac-maybe with an outside back it is different but if I'd gone to the less physical Japanese competition a year before the RWC I wouldn't fancy my chances breaking back into the side.
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Geez - do posters realise it is a 23 player game these days and the All Blacks learned over a decade ago that a lack of a plan B at RWC could have them out. Fern posters have gone on and on about not having plan B's too,
So, the current coaches are addressing this by training for scenarios where they lose a key player through injury or a card early, and making sure that the players slotting into another position can do so relatively seamlessly. Seems intelligent to me and a big tick for this regime. You can only have 8 on the bench. I have assumed that Jordie is seen as potential cover at 12 this week, else they would have most likely promoted Quinn Tupaea. There will be a planned scenario for the loss of any player.
The AB's will likely have a pecking order of 4 players minimum for any jersey number, and will do their best to build experience of each of those candidates in that jersey within the RWC leadup campaign. I see nothing wrong with that, and am happy for us not to be winning by 50 points with out best 15 playing 80 minutes every week, if we are progressing forward our troops for the RWC battle. Then, they will pick the best 23 players to deal with whatever the opposition are expected to throw at them that week, and will continue their admirable philosophy (big tick for current regime) of not picking players who are injured, but seeing it as an opportunity to further develop an understudy in preparation for what may come.
All these posts wanting Foster to be dumped for not keeping players in their preferred jersey number at all times would seem to based on nasty agendas and not on reason....
@arhs said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
All these posts wanting Foster to be dumped for not keeping players in their preferred jersey number at all times would seem to based on nasty agendas and not on reason....
Rugby has something to do with combinations.
Secondly I don't think anybody said "at all times"---sounds like a straw man to me.The AB's will likely have a pecking order of 4 players minimum for any jersey number, and will do their best to build experience of each of those candidates in that jersey
Thirdly, it is debatable that they have done "their best to build experience"-playing Jordie on the wing has probably only damaged his confidence and it is a bit of an insult to others if he is in the top 4 wingers in the country (no offense to him). And I'd be interested to know which AB has clearly improved under Foster et al's coaching (outside of their super/provincial coaches).
Fourth, they didn't build key experience earlier on in pivotal positions people would be likely to play in by the RWC (well, maybe Jacobson, not Jordie, arguably at least one prop won't be there for the RWC and will be overtaken).
Further, by your logic they shouldn't be playing players who could be too old by the RWC.
