Pasifika SR team
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@machpants it seems to me that the majority who can play for MP will also be AB eligible. So as soon as they turn out half decent they'll shift to another franchise because the ABs actually pay you to play test rugby.
On top of this they are working with a smaller pool of potential players and likely less resources.
Just seems like they'll be flogs who get their best talent poached whenever it comes through. That, or they just become the sixth NZ franchise (which may actually be a half decent move).
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@machpants it seems to me that the majority who can play for MP will also be AB eligible. So as soon as they turn out half decent they'll shift to another franchise because the ABs actually pay you to play test rugby.
On top of this they are working with a smaller pool of potential players and likely less resources.
Just seems like they'll be flogs who get their best talent poached whenever it comes through. That, or they just become the sixth NZ franchise (which may actually be a half decent move).
@derpus said in Pasifika SR team:
@machpants it seems to me that the majority who can play for MP will also be AB eligible. So as soon as they turn out half decent they'll shift to another franchise because the ABs actually pay you to play test rugby.
On top of this they are working with a smaller pool of potential players and likely less resources.
Just seems like they'll be flogs who get their best talent poached whenever it comes through. That, or they just become the sixth NZ franchise (which may actually be a half decent move).
I thought that 8% had to declare for Samoa or Tonga, which takes them out of AB's or Aussie's reach doesn't it?
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@derpus There are a few players now floating around Counties Manukau and neighbouring regions that view does not apply too. I wonder if their return from offshore has anything to do with MP?
@arhs said in Pasifika SR team:
@derpus There are a few players now floating around Counties Manukau and neighbouring regions that view does not apply too. I wonder if their return from offshore has anything to do with MP?
Yep think that's why Sekope Kefu is back, think I heard him talk about it on tv.
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@derpus said in Pasifika SR team:
@machpants it seems to me that the majority who can play for MP will also be AB eligible. So as soon as they turn out half decent they'll shift to another franchise because the ABs actually pay you to play test rugby.
On top of this they are working with a smaller pool of potential players and likely less resources.
Just seems like they'll be flogs who get their best talent poached whenever it comes through. That, or they just become the sixth NZ franchise (which may actually be a half decent move).
I thought that 8% had to declare for Samoa or Tonga, which takes them out of AB's or Aussie's reach doesn't it?
@dan54 I think 80% (not 8%) needs to be eligible for Tonga, Samoa (or other Pacific nations?) or have already played for them. I don't think they have to declare for (i.e. committing to) them. In any case, as long as they're contracted to MP, they'll be ineligible for any other nation, such as NZ and Oz.
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@arhs said in Pasifika SR team:
@derpus There are a few players now floating around Counties Manukau and neighbouring regions that view does not apply too. I wonder if their return from offshore has anything to do with MP?
Yep think that's why Sekope Kefu is back, think I heard him talk about it on tv.
@dan54 said in Pasifika SR team:
Yep think that's why Sekope Kefu is back, think I heard him talk about it on tv.
They could also sign the likes of Manu and Lam (if not returning to Japan) to provide some experience. Apisai is a local who isn't in a current NZ squad.
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@dan54 said in Pasifika SR team:
Yep think that's why Sekope Kefu is back, think I heard him talk about it on tv.
They could also sign the likes of Manu and Lam (if not returning to Japan) to provide some experience. Apisai is a local who isn't in a current NZ squad.
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@bovidae other possibles are Puafisi, Slade, Motuga, Rarasea (Drua), Taumateine, Tuiloma, Tatafu, N Latu, Tikoirotuma (Drua), Leuila, Anae, Woonton, Lay, S Tuipolutu. Pretty much all captured by the Pacific Islands and not in super franchise contract.
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@arhs Remove Slade from that list but, I agree, plenty to choose from in the greater Auckland region.
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@derpus said in Pasifika SR team:
@machpants it seems to me that the majority who can play for MP will also be AB eligible. So as soon as they turn out half decent they'll shift to another franchise because the ABs actually pay you to play test rugby.
On top of this they are working with a smaller pool of potential players and likely less resources.
Just seems like they'll be flogs who get their best talent poached whenever it comes through. That, or they just become the sixth NZ franchise (which may actually be a half decent move).
I thought that 8% had to declare for Samoa or Tonga, which takes them out of AB's or Aussie's reach doesn't it?
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i may have missed it, have the confirmed where MP will play their home games?
@Kiwiwomble I feel like I heard Mt. Smart? Could be wrong.
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@Kiwiwomble I feel like I heard Mt. Smart? Could be wrong.
@yeetyaah said in Pasifika SR team:
@Kiwiwomble I feel like I heard Mt. Smart? Could be wrong.
Sure I heard that too mate.
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@Kiwiwomble I feel like I heard Mt. Smart? Could be wrong.
@yeetyaah id been assuming Mt Smart or Pukekohe or maybe split between, as you say we much be due some sore of announcements soon
I also might have missed this but, i thought when we had the MP v maori games they were saying it may have the same name but the super team would be different etc, but theyre using the same logo and branding etc
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First rugby post here ...
I follow NZ rugby closely from afar and Moana Pasifika "appears" a cool idea "in theory" but practically I'm d*mned if I can see it achieving it's lofty goals unless it can maintain a core squad with say 50% of the squad having ALREADY played for Samoa or Tonga i.e. REALLY locked in.
Up-and-coming talent can either make themselves eligible for the ABs if NZ resident, by moving to an NZR franchise and-of-year (can they be stopped, under NZ employment law, or contractually with multi-year contracts??).
Or they can make more cash overseas, Europe or increasingly in Japan with an expanding pro competition.
Otherwise at best, it looks like a sixth franchise with a dollop of "we're helping the islands, aren't we very nice and PC?" which will scoop up mainly borderline SR talent, diluting other NZR franchise squad talent and may help Australia compete in SR (may, lol).
Then adding a sprinking of (being realistic?) ex-ABs or borderline ABs reminds me of Thrush and Kahui at the force. Good for TV viewer numbers, great marketing, but not much more in terms of rugby success.Thinking long-term about Pacific Island Rugby in Samoa and Tonga, due to the grand-parent international eligibility rule and high percentages already being resident and citizens in NZ ... surely over time fewer and fewer "Pacifika" folk will even be eligible to play for Samoa and Tonga unless rules change?
So if it can even survive competitively and commercially, it becomes a sixth NZ (-based) franchise with a "Pacifika flavour".
Which is fine ... but can we expect any more, unless international and SR structures change significantly?
What am I missing????
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First rugby post here ...
I follow NZ rugby closely from afar and Moana Pasifika "appears" a cool idea "in theory" but practically I'm d*mned if I can see it achieving it's lofty goals unless it can maintain a core squad with say 50% of the squad having ALREADY played for Samoa or Tonga i.e. REALLY locked in.
Up-and-coming talent can either make themselves eligible for the ABs if NZ resident, by moving to an NZR franchise and-of-year (can they be stopped, under NZ employment law, or contractually with multi-year contracts??).
Or they can make more cash overseas, Europe or increasingly in Japan with an expanding pro competition.
Otherwise at best, it looks like a sixth franchise with a dollop of "we're helping the islands, aren't we very nice and PC?" which will scoop up mainly borderline SR talent, diluting other NZR franchise squad talent and may help Australia compete in SR (may, lol).
Then adding a sprinking of (being realistic?) ex-ABs or borderline ABs reminds me of Thrush and Kahui at the force. Good for TV viewer numbers, great marketing, but not much more in terms of rugby success.Thinking long-term about Pacific Island Rugby in Samoa and Tonga, due to the grand-parent international eligibility rule and high percentages already being resident and citizens in NZ ... surely over time fewer and fewer "Pacifika" folk will even be eligible to play for Samoa and Tonga unless rules change?
So if it can even survive competitively and commercially, it becomes a sixth NZ (-based) franchise with a "Pacifika flavour".
Which is fine ... but can we expect any more, unless international and SR structures change significantly?
What am I missing????
@landp said in Pasifika SR team:
First rugby post here ...
I follow NZ rugby closely from afar and Moana Pasifika "appears" a cool idea "in theory" but practically I'm d*mned if I can see it achieving it's lofty goals unless it can maintain a core squad with say 50% of the squad having ALREADY played for Samoa or Tonga i.e. REALLY locked in.
Up-and-coming talent can either make themselves eligible for the ABs if NZ resident, by moving to an NZR franchise and-of-year (can they be stopped, under NZ employment law, or contractually with multi-year contracts??).
Or they can make more cash overseas, Europe or increasingly in Japan with an expanding pro competition.
Otherwise at best, it looks like a sixth franchise with a dollop of "we're helping the islands, aren't we very nice and PC?" which will scoop up mainly borderline SR talent, diluting other NZR franchise squad talent and may help Australia compete in SR (may, lol).
Then adding a sprinking of (being realistic?) ex-ABs or borderline ABs reminds me of Thrush and Kahui at the force. Good for TV viewer numbers, great marketing, but not much more in terms of rugby success.Thinking long-term about Pacific Island Rugby in Samoa and Tonga, due to the grand-parent international eligibility rule and high percentages already being resident and citizens in NZ ... surely over time fewer and fewer "Pacifika" folk will even be eligible to play for Samoa and Tonga unless rules change?
So if it can even survive competitively and commercially, it becomes a sixth NZ (-based) franchise with a "Pacifika flavour".
Which is fine ... but can we expect any more, unless international and SR structures change significantly?
What am I missing????
Welcome. Good first post (be careful of setting standards that you will need to lower)
I think it may keep a few from low level overseas contracts. If they can earn a living here while staying around friends and family then that is a good thing and will keep them available for national sides. Will also provide an opportunity to train and play against others they can be judged against.
When a potential player for an island nation heads to Europe or Japan they are pretty much lost. This will help a small bit. -
First rugby post here ...
I follow NZ rugby closely from afar and Moana Pasifika "appears" a cool idea "in theory" but practically I'm d*mned if I can see it achieving it's lofty goals unless it can maintain a core squad with say 50% of the squad having ALREADY played for Samoa or Tonga i.e. REALLY locked in.
Up-and-coming talent can either make themselves eligible for the ABs if NZ resident, by moving to an NZR franchise and-of-year (can they be stopped, under NZ employment law, or contractually with multi-year contracts??).
Or they can make more cash overseas, Europe or increasingly in Japan with an expanding pro competition.
Otherwise at best, it looks like a sixth franchise with a dollop of "we're helping the islands, aren't we very nice and PC?" which will scoop up mainly borderline SR talent, diluting other NZR franchise squad talent and may help Australia compete in SR (may, lol).
Then adding a sprinking of (being realistic?) ex-ABs or borderline ABs reminds me of Thrush and Kahui at the force. Good for TV viewer numbers, great marketing, but not much more in terms of rugby success.Thinking long-term about Pacific Island Rugby in Samoa and Tonga, due to the grand-parent international eligibility rule and high percentages already being resident and citizens in NZ ... surely over time fewer and fewer "Pacifika" folk will even be eligible to play for Samoa and Tonga unless rules change?
So if it can even survive competitively and commercially, it becomes a sixth NZ (-based) franchise with a "Pacifika flavour".
Which is fine ... but can we expect any more, unless international and SR structures change significantly?
What am I missing????
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@derpus said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp nothing. It's a dumb idea. Just like SR Pacific as a whole.
Yeah, SR Pacific strikes me as as a makeshift commercial compromise which is unsustainable in the long-term. Simply because the two main partners have different agendas and needs -
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NZR uses it (has ALWAYS used it!) as vehicle to supply and control the golden-goose ABs - want higher quality, systemic control of player and coaching resource. Less is more.
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Oz want (and now NEED) to regrow their local base - need local or perceived success/winners. Also probably (not sure tbh) Oz need the SR TV money rather more heavily than NZR do? More is more.
New Drua and MP teams don't achieve much in propping up SR in reality beyond being cannon-fodder for more matches, therefore more TV money.
It's like a co-dependent relationship, right? Both partners ideally want something "better" but they can't afford to split up because of money and the "kids" :winking_face:
Problem is, I can't see a solution i.e. something that works for both parties given where they will be over the next - say - 5 years. But both are also fighting off Japan who will increasingly become a major rugby power, at least in commercial terms.
Hence SR Pacific looking a botch job ... but frankly hasn't ST always been a botch job????
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