All Blacks vs Pumas I
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@hooroo Whitelock too, Moody, Taylor to the starting line up, then you add Coles, Clarke and Goodhue into the mix and things start to look even better.
You can make a decent case that this would be first choice starting XV if everyone was fit:
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Retallick, Ioane, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Ioane, Lienert-Brown, Goodhue, Jordan, McKenzie.
Not quite what I would pick and probably not quite what Fozzie would pick - tighthead, midfield mix and fullback are question marks. But, only three of last nights starters and Rieko out of position.
I know Cane is captain but I'd go Papalii over him based on Dalton's performances. With Barrett/Whitelock and Retallick, the Cane presence is as needed IMO
You don't think J Barrett has done enough to keep Dmac out?
@hooroo I've been in favour of Jordie all season - I don't like too many little men. But, I think it's a question mark. Fozzie seemed to prefer DMac at the start of the season and now the water is muddy because Dmac is the back-up first five.
Wasn't Cane was player of the season last year? I think he walks in if available and both Fozzie and I are picking him.
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@hooroo I've been in favour of Jordie all season - I don't like too many little men. But, I think it's a question mark. Fozzie seemed to prefer DMac at the start of the season and now the water is muddy because Dmac is the back-up first five.
Wasn't Cane was player of the season last year? I think he walks in if available and both Fozzie and I are picking him.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@hooroo I've been in favour of Jordie all season - I don't like too many little men. But, I think it's a question mark. Fozzie seemed to prefer DMac at the start of the season and now the water is muddy because Dmac is the back-up first five.
Wasn't Cane was player of the season last year? I think he walks in if available and both Fozzie and I are picking him.
Good point about Cane last year (I have a shocking memory). It seems he's been injured forever. I happily take back Dalton over Sam, I would take Cane on last years performance.
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im really torn if cane walks back in after yet another injury or if paps or savea even play as guys that are a bit more battle hardened, wil have built more connections with the guys guys
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@hooroo I've been in favour of Jordie all season - I don't like too many little men. But, I think it's a question mark. Fozzie seemed to prefer DMac at the start of the season and now the water is muddy because Dmac is the back-up first five.
Wasn't Cane was player of the season last year? I think he walks in if available and both Fozzie and I are picking him.
Good point about Cane last year (I have a shocking memory). It seems he's been injured forever. I happily take back Dalton over Sam, I would take Cane on last years performance.
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that was pretty good really wasn't it? We dominated them for basically the whole game, they never looked like breaking us open, and we scored a few points. Yes the 2nd half was shit, but the game was done and literally everyone knew it. We kept the defensive intensity up
Not too much can be read in to it because the Argies are really very ordinary at everything except tackling, they did a lot of that and did it well. But we've got some bloody good players running around.
More than happy to keep Jordie at the back based on his work. He's big, fearless, and gaining confidence all the time. Liking lots of what Havili brings, but he does have a few work-ons. Game suited BBarrett down to the ground, and he played nicely with ball in hand. Kicking not so much. Pack was good, lineouts aside. Still think we are a little static at times when we go through the phases, but there was some terrific tackling by Blue.
DMac is done for me. There are better players everywhere, and i blame the mindless last half an hour almost entirely on him overplaying his hand all the fucking time. Not a 10. Not a good enough 15. Squadie at best. George Bridge is just meh. Has to be 4th on the winger list now, and should find himself out of the squad if they can find a guy who is able to beat a man. Wasn't a bad game, but it wasn't good either.
We're building nicely i think. This isn't a dominant squad that will run rough-shod over the rugby world for 4 years, but our top 23 is going to be very hard to beat.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@victor-meldrew yeah, thought that was kinda the point I was making. Maybe similar to what I thought of Jordan until last week - the frustrating moments just seem so derived that it can't be the player's "instincts".
Never thought I'd say this, but perhaps Foster is a bit cuter than we think and has confidence Bridge will grow into the role Foster obviously sees for him.
@victor-meldrew and what role is that? Not a block busting winger. Not a try scorer when not in space. I think he is safe but won’t wins game and do the remarkable when it is needed.
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@frank said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
The Akira, Papalii, Jacobson loose forward combination is savage as fuck.
and, if everyone was available, two of them would not start, 1 wouldn't make the bench.
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that was pretty good really wasn't it? We dominated them for basically the whole game, they never looked like breaking us open, and we scored a few points. Yes the 2nd half was shit, but the game was done and literally everyone knew it. We kept the defensive intensity up
Not too much can be read in to it because the Argies are really very ordinary at everything except tackling, they did a lot of that and did it well. But we've got some bloody good players running around.
More than happy to keep Jordie at the back based on his work. He's big, fearless, and gaining confidence all the time. Liking lots of what Havili brings, but he does have a few work-ons. Game suited BBarrett down to the ground, and he played nicely with ball in hand. Kicking not so much. Pack was good, lineouts aside. Still think we are a little static at times when we go through the phases, but there was some terrific tackling by Blue.
DMac is done for me. There are better players everywhere, and i blame the mindless last half an hour almost entirely on him overplaying his hand all the fucking time. Not a 10. Not a good enough 15. Squadie at best. George Bridge is just meh. Has to be 4th on the winger list now, and should find himself out of the squad if they can find a guy who is able to beat a man. Wasn't a bad game, but it wasn't good either.
We're building nicely i think. This isn't a dominant squad that will run rough-shod over the rugby world for 4 years, but our top 23 is going to be very hard to beat.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Yes the 2nd half was shit,
Introducing the bench has disrupted the ABs significantly in recent games, particularly on defence. Some of this was due to forced changes with injury/HIA and such, but even planned changes aren't gelling perfectly.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Yes the 2nd half was shit,
Introducing the bench has disrupted the ABs significantly in recent games, particularly on defence. Some of this was due to forced changes with injury/HIA and such, but even planned changes aren't gelling perfectly.
@nta said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Yes the 2nd half was shit,
Introducing the bench has disrupted the ABs significantly in recent games, particularly on defence. Some of this was due to forced changes with injury/HIA and such, but even planned changes aren't gelling perfectly.
is it me or do we also seem to be make the changes earlier, even before the 50th minute
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that was pretty good really wasn't it? We dominated them for basically the whole game, they never looked like breaking us open, and we scored a few points. Yes the 2nd half was shit, but the game was done and literally everyone knew it. We kept the defensive intensity up
Not too much can be read in to it because the Argies are really very ordinary at everything except tackling, they did a lot of that and did it well. But we've got some bloody good players running around.
More than happy to keep Jordie at the back based on his work. He's big, fearless, and gaining confidence all the time. Liking lots of what Havili brings, but he does have a few work-ons. Game suited BBarrett down to the ground, and he played nicely with ball in hand. Kicking not so much. Pack was good, lineouts aside. Still think we are a little static at times when we go through the phases, but there was some terrific tackling by Blue.
DMac is done for me. There are better players everywhere, and i blame the mindless last half an hour almost entirely on him overplaying his hand all the fucking time. Not a 10. Not a good enough 15. Squadie at best. George Bridge is just meh. Has to be 4th on the winger list now, and should find himself out of the squad if they can find a guy who is able to beat a man. Wasn't a bad game, but it wasn't good either.
We're building nicely i think. This isn't a dominant squad that will run rough-shod over the rugby world for 4 years, but our top 23 is going to be very hard to beat.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
DMac is done for me. There are better players everywhere, and i blame the mindless last half an hour almost entirely on him overplaying his hand all the fucking time. Not a 10. Not a good enough 15. Squadie at best.
Good to see people slowly coming around.
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Has DMac lost some of his pace? The main reason he was so dangerous was that he could take a gap and be gone but now he just looks small and nippy but not fast.
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
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Has DMac lost some of his pace? The main reason he was so dangerous was that he could take a gap and be gone but now he just looks small and nippy but not fast.
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
@kiwipie I don’t think he has lost pace it’s is just the defenses are better and they know his stick. He needs space to operate that is why JB is a better selection as he can handle the contact in a tight game plus he isn’t that bad. I like his size over Dmac.
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Has DMac lost some of his pace? The main reason he was so dangerous was that he could take a gap and be gone but now he just looks small and nippy but not fast.
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
@kiwipie either lost some pace or lost his confidence in his pace, just seemed really cautious about actually taking the ball to the line
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@frank said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
The Akira, Papalii, Jacobson loose forward combination is savage as fuck.
If you were simply judging the loose forwards as a unit this one must tick just about all the boxes. And remember they are very inexperienced at the top level and can only get better. I agree that Cane and Ardie are better players but I wonder if the mix isn't as good when we add them. A good problem to have.
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Was awesome to see Beauden have such a good game to give Mo'unga some competition and keep him honest. But please, one starts and one on the bench. Because 1) they both want to control the game so conflict with each other in a "duel playmaker" role, and 2) either one of them will be fucking lethal off the bench against tiring defenses.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@hooroo Whitelock too, Moody, Taylor to the starting line up, then you add Coles, Clarke and Goodhue into the mix and things start to look even better.
You can make a decent case that this would be first choice starting XV if everyone was fit:
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Retallick, Ioane, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Ioane, Lienert-Brown, Goodhue, Jordan, McKenzie.
Not quite what I would pick and probably not quite what Fozzie would pick - tighthead, midfield mix and fullback are question marks. But, only three of last nights starters and Rieko out of position.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@hooroo Whitelock too, Moody, Taylor to the starting line up, then you add Coles, Clarke and Goodhue into the mix and things start to look even better.
You can make a decent case that this would be first choice starting XV if everyone was fit:
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Retallick, Ioane, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Ioane, Lienert-Brown, Goodhue, Jordan, McKenzie.
Not quite what I would pick and probably not quite what Fozzie would pick - tighthead, midfield mix and fullback are question marks. But, only three of last nights starters and Rieko out of position.
I think ALB’s 2nd 5 starting days in black are over, other than in an emergency.
I think if all are fit I’d have
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Retallick, Ioane, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Ioane, Havili, Lienert-Brown, Reece, J. Barrett
Coles
Tu'inukuafe
Laulala
S. Barrett
Papali’i / Jacobsen - either or really as both would equally serve what we need in terms of options
Perenara
B. Barrett
Jordan -
Has DMac lost some of his pace? The main reason he was so dangerous was that he could take a gap and be gone but now he just looks small and nippy but not fast.
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
@kiwipie said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
It was telling when some of our players went searching for a gap - Havili running across players or Ioane running a drift line - instead of being more direct. More often than not the Argies were right there ready.
Was a good contrast to how the Aussies defended. On the other hand Argies attack didn’t offer our defence anything like what that the Aussies did.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@hooroo Whitelock too, Moody, Taylor to the starting line up, then you add Coles, Clarke and Goodhue into the mix and things start to look even better.
You can make a decent case that this would be first choice starting XV if everyone was fit:
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Retallick, Ioane, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Ioane, Lienert-Brown, Goodhue, Jordan, McKenzie.
Not quite what I would pick and probably not quite what Fozzie would pick - tighthead, midfield mix and fullback are question marks. But, only three of last nights starters and Rieko out of position.
I think ALB’s 2nd 5 starting days in black are over, other than in an emergency.
I think if all are fit I’d have
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Retallick, Ioane, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Ioane, Havili, Lienert-Brown, Reece, J. Barrett
Coles
Tu'inukuafe
Laulala
S. Barrett
Papali’i / Jacobsen - either or really as both would equally serve what we need in terms of options
Perenara
B. Barrett
Jordan@act-crusader Be interesting to see what they do when Goodhue becomes available again, because we'll have three centres and one second-five. IMO ALB is a much better option at 2nd five than Goodhue - I've got no idea what Foster was thinking when he switched them in 2020 (from his 2019 pairing).
Reece starting? He's not even the best right wing for his NPC team!
(That's a Waugh brothers joke).
Jordan starting at 14 for me. Probably Sevu on the bench.
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@act-crusader Be interesting to see what they do when Goodhue becomes available again, because we'll have three centres and one second-five. IMO ALB is a much better option at 2nd five than Goodhue - I've got no idea what Foster was thinking when he switched them in 2020 (from his 2019 pairing).
Reece starting? He's not even the best right wing for his NPC team!
(That's a Waugh brothers joke).
Jordan starting at 14 for me. Probably Sevu on the bench.
i like goodhue...but not how he was used last year at 12, just running crash ball after crash ball. Sure, sometimes a good move to draw in more defenders and make space, but we just didn;t see him mix it up and distribute much
