All Blacks vs Pumas II

Machpants

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@machpants i said similar...not the same

Sorry my point was more I don't like the format of 5 games in 5 weeks, without the flexibility of normal travel and replacements

Machpants

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

It might be easier to think who needs a rest. Nepo, BBBR, Akira seem to have put in a lot of minutes so far, BB slight injury concern. Are Taylor, ALB, Ofa and Ardie fit? Moody needs more minutes. Plus all the squad players who have not played yet. I'm not sure anyone would be able to pick the team this week.

Moody
Taylor
Ofa (Lomax)
Pat T
Barrett
Blackadder
Papalii
Savea
TJ
Jordan
Dmac
Havili
ALB
Reece
JBarrett

Sotutu
De Groot
Ta'avao
Aumua
BBBR
Christie
Ennor
RI

I think it's really going to be a B side, because they've seen what Argentina offer, have to rotate, and have the boks up next

Machpants

He confirmed that hooker Codie Taylor, props Ethan de Groot and Ofa Tuungafasi, lock Patrick Tuipulotu and loosie Ardie Savea would all likely be available for selection

The injury room was pretty quiet, too. Anton Lienert-Brown strained his hamstring on game eve, and was a late withdrawal, but apart from a couple of minor knocks to Dalton Papalii and Asafo Aumua and some calf cramping for Beauden Barrett, all was well. Prop Joe Moody came through his first match since April with only a minor shoulder stinger that was not thought to be seriouss

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300406104/all-blacks-vs-argentina-john-plumtree-hints-at-changes-as-physical-toll-factors-in

pakman

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

It might be easier to think who needs a rest. Nepo, BBBR, Akira seem to have put in a lot of minutes so far, BB slight injury concern. Are Taylor, ALB, Ofa and Ardie fit? Moody needs more minutes. Plus all the squad players who have not played yet. I'm not sure anyone would be able to pick the team this week.

Moody
Taylor
Ofa (Lomax)
Pat T
Barrett
Blackadder
Papalii
Savea
TJ
Jordan
Dmac
Havili
ALB
Reece
JBarrett

Sotutu
De Groot
Ta'avao
Aumua
BBBR
Christie
Ennor
RI

Not enough continuity. Remember 2020?

Bones

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kirwan bridge is a playmaker isn't he?

If anything, he could benefit from a positional change. Similar to how DH was an average fullback, but is making a good fist of 2nd Five Eighth, Bridge could be a useful fullback and is an average winger.

Problem for him there is he better than Jordan, Dmac or Jordie. Big nope.
On wing is he better than Reiko, Reece, Jordan, Clarke? Big nope.

Sooner Clarke rejoins the squad the better.

Havili an average fullback? What a load of cr*p! He was unlucky to miss out in 2019, as he was the in-form fullback at the time. He missed out because they thought Jordie Barrett was more versatile (which was a joke of an reason). He was the best fullback by miles in 2020 SRA before his bowel surgery. I'm not saying that - taken over the years - he's been the best fullback, but he was definitely very close. Average, my *ss.

Bro!

alt text

booboo

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

It might be easier to think who needs a rest. Nepo, BBBR, Akira seem to have put in a lot of minutes so far, BB slight injury concern. Are Taylor, ALB, Ofa and Ardie fit? Moody needs more minutes. Plus all the squad players who have not played yet. I'm not sure anyone would be able to pick the team this week.

Moody
Taylor
Ofa (Lomax)
Pat T
Barrett
Blackadder
Papalii
Savea
TJ
Jordan
Dmac
Havili
ALB
Reece
JBarrett

Sotutu
De Groot
Ta'avao
Aumua
BBBR
Christie
Ennor
RI

Not enough continuity. Remember 2020?

Ruined a good weekend away that did.

I agree with the principal about a bit of rotation, but we're getting a degree of that with injury.

And we'd need to know who is in doubt, like Taylor, Savea, Roane, ALB etc.

I'm thinking I'd like to see at least 50% of the top XV starting, and 50% of the XXIII in the XXIII.

nostrildamus

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kirwan bridge is a playmaker isn't he?

If anything, he could benefit from a positional change. Similar to how DH was an average fullback, but is making a good fist of 2nd Five Eighth, Bridge could be a useful fullback and is an average winger.

Problem for him there is he better than Jordan, Dmac or Jordie. Big nope.
On wing is he better than Reiko, Reece, Jordan, Clarke? Big nope.

Sooner Clarke rejoins the squad the better.

Havili an average fullback? What a load of cr*p! He was unlucky to miss out in 2019, as he was the in-form fullback at the time. He missed out because they thought Jordie Barrett was more versatile (which was a joke of an reason). He was the best fullback by miles in 2020 SRA before his bowel surgery. I'm not saying that - taken over the years - he's been the best fullback, but he was definitely very close. Average, my *ss.

Finally, an excellent rant! TSF was getting far too quiet...

nostrildamus

@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

DMac to start at 10?

It makes sense to rest him on a short turnaround so he's fit for the Boks. But who is the backup 10 then, Jordie? DH was awful there at the lower levels, so maybe TJ ahead of him?

Last man standing stuff.

Was DH that bad at 10?

Bones

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

DMac to start at 10?

It makes sense to rest him on a short turnaround so he's fit for the Boks. But who is the backup 10 then, Jordie? DH was awful there at the lower levels, so maybe TJ ahead of him?

Last man standing stuff.

Was DH that bad at 10?

@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

Bro!

nostrildamus

@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

DMac to start at 10?

It makes sense to rest him on a short turnaround so he's fit for the Boks. But who is the backup 10 then, Jordie? DH was awful there at the lower levels, so maybe TJ ahead of him?

Last man standing stuff.

Was DH that bad at 10?

@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

Bro!

See, I'm not sure he's fishing, regards 10. 15? Yup, fishing.

Bones

@nostrildamus I was pretty impressed overall. I think there was one game where he was a bit ordinary, but I'd be more than happy to have him as a backup in my team. He's better than Black, any Canes 10, etc....

nostrildamus

@bones I believe you! He's a smart player. I just wish we tested these ideas out before, because DMac can really spray and wobble his passes once he gets excited. It was shoelace stuff on Sunday.

Kirwan

@nostrildamus yep, second half was a bit of a disaster in that game he had there

booboo

@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@nostrildamus I was pretty impressed overall. I think there was one game where he was a bit ordinary, but I'd be more than happy to have him as a backup in my team. He's better than Black, any Canes 10, etc....

Lincoln McClutchie..

Duluth

@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

yep, second half was a bit of a disaster in that game he had there

Chiefs won the game because of how bad he was in the second half.

There were plenty of people discussing his shocker in the match thread. Also, here's what his biggest fan had to say:
"under pressure in the second half, you could see he's not a specialist 10"

Chris B.

It's a bit of a poisoned chalice even for DMac to play first five.

I'd be pretty unhappy to see anyone else have to spend a protracted period there, because test rugby against a competitive team is no place for a makeshift first five.

But, it would surely be Jordie if someone had to - or just maybe TJ. Has he played there for the Canes?

Havili struggled playing there in Super rugby because his main qualification was probably being better than Brett Cameron. I wouldn't put him there, regardless - because you'd then have Quinn Tupaea at second five helping out.

cgrant

DH has all the attributes for a 1st Five. I know his outing for the Crusaders was not a big success but if you remember what happened during this game, he was very good in the first half before a nightmare second half.
If he had to play there, then ALB should be the 2nd Five.

L_n_P

Although I don't like any of options, with 2 years to a RWC I don't think we should be shuffling players around now the AB's are starting to show a more coherent structure based on specialization (and competition per place). 6-7-8 and 12-13 starting to look much better.

Havilli is a class act, but he's still bedding down at 12 - yet still offers way more potential than anyone we've seen there since Nonu. If Havilli and ALB play, leave them at 12 and 13.

I'd treat it like RWC 2007, down to #3 or #4 first five. Who would play at 10 in 2023 if RM and BB are both injured? Risk a loss as a team learning experience now. If DMac, play DMac at 10, if Jordie play Jordie at 10, DMac at 15.

AND if DMac at 10, tell the b_gger (when he runs) to run straight and direct until the AB's are 20 ahead. At least that way the team knows what the f*ck he's doing. If he can't do that at 10 now, imho drop him because ... he's never learning ... and there are certainly 2 better options at 15 by the RWC.

Frye

No idea why there is debate about 10. DMac clearly has the most experience and even if he isn't exactly a world class first five he's still an excellent 3rd choice. Jordie should be left at fullback for the next 3 tests.

L_n_P

@frye said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

No idea why there is debate about 10. DMac clearly has the most experience and even if he isn't exactly a world class first five he's still an excellent 3rd choice. Jordie should be left at fullback for the next 3 tests.

@frye Exactly ... if you can't trust DMac to start at 10 in this game (assume he trains there a lot), you can't trust him to start in a "must win" RWC game.

On form Jordie looks like the starting 15, and #2 goalkicker behind RM to me. Just needs to cut out the flying kung-fu kicks :winking_face:

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Pumas II