All Blacks vs Pumas I
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@kiwipie said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Has DMac lost some of his pace? The main reason he was so dangerous was that he could take a gap and be gone but now he just looks small and nippy but not fast.
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
I blame his haircut.
Pretty good performance all around. Dominated with ball in hand, Argies had a few good phases, but we managed to keep them scoreless.. Agreed with the Aus commentator at the end on taking the penalty - keeping them scoreless a key goal achieved.
But seriously, back to the haircuts. They are all fucking awful. Especially Rieko, DMac & Havili. Just god awful.
@majorrage said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@kiwipie said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Has DMac lost some of his pace? The main reason he was so dangerous was that he could take a gap and be gone but now he just looks small and nippy but not fast.
The Argentina defence really was excellent. Given how easily the Aussies gave up tries after just one missed tackle, the ABs really had to work hard to get over the line and the Argies really never seemed to be outnumbered even after multiple phases.
I blame his haircut.
Pretty good performance all around. Dominated with ball in hand, Argies had a few good phases, but we managed to keep them scoreless.. Agreed with the Aus commentator at the end on taking the penalty - keeping them scoreless a key goal achieved.
But seriously, back to the haircuts. They are all fucking awful. Especially Rieko, DMac & Havili. Just god awful.
I think Ethan Blackadders is the worst but it’s still possibly better than his Dads ever was.
What a ghastly period for “do’s” in Rugby teams all round.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Finally got a chance to watch the game. Based on this forum, I was expecting Bridge to have had a 'mare. In fact he was fine, one knock on in the 79 minute excepted. Too many people stroking each other off over bridge "say it louder baby, bridge is hopeless, that's right give me that upvote". Will never be an AB great, but he is hardly in the basket case category either.
ABs are waaaay better this season. Starts with selection, which is much better than last year. Forwards more direct. I think the ABs should ditch Coles who is now 34, 36 in 2023. The 2 hookers both had very solid games. I think the best AB loose trio would be Ioane, Cane and Jacobson, with Savea on the bench. Jacobson is a really class player.
BB, RI and BBBR were probably my 3 top players, but no-one disgraced themselves. There is great depth, if we have a weakness I'd say lock: Barrett is already a step down, I really don't rate PT at international level. The sprinbok and NH tests will be a good litmus test - teams that thrive on 10 man rugby and would be more than happy to claim an AB scalp playing that way.
Like Mealamu in 2015? Nah, if you’re good enough you’re not too old.
About Bridge, he wasn’t pointed out as crap. Just having been totally nothing as a winger. ABs wingers are X factor awesome, or amazing 2nd fullbacks (more recently) Bridge is meh. He is fine, but there are better options to go for long term. Everything about him says Journeyman, break out in case of emergency
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Finally got a chance to watch the game. Based on this forum, I was expecting Bridge to have had a 'mare. In fact he was fine, one knock on in the 79 minute excepted. Too many people stroking each other off over bridge "say it louder baby, bridge is hopeless, that's right give me that upvote". Will never be an AB great, but he is hardly in the basket case category either.
ABs are waaaay better this season. Starts with selection, which is much better than last year. Forwards more direct. I think the ABs should ditch Coles who is now 34, 36 in 2023. The 2 hookers both had very solid games. I think the best AB loose trio would be Ioane, Cane and Jacobson, with Savea on the bench. Jacobson is a really class player.
BB, RI and BBBR were probably my 3 top players, but no-one disgraced themselves. There is great depth, if we have a weakness I'd say lock: Barrett is already a step down, I really don't rate PT at international level. The sprinbok and NH tests will be a good litmus test - teams that thrive on 10 man rugby and would be more than happy to claim an AB scalp playing that way.
Like Mealamu in 2015? Nah, if you’re good enough you’re not too old.
About Bridge, he wasn’t pointed out as crap. Just having been totally nothing as a winger. ABs wingers are X factor awesome, or amazing 2nd fullbacks (more recently) Bridge is meh. He is fine, but there are better options to go for long term. Everything about him says Journeyman, break out in case of emergency
Bridge = Not crap.
All we want in an All Black winger.
What he lacks in pace pace, power and elusiveness he makes with being solid and dependable...
He's a good player, just doesn't bring the extra.
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Jeez, this anti-Bridge narrative is really out of hand on here. Mere mention of his name and you get:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Jeez, this anti-Bridge narrative is really out of hand on here. Mere mention of his name and you get:
"Anti Bridge"?
Or identification or "Adequate"?
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@nzzp said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
Hope George is ready.
I google George Bridge Highlights. This was the first hit on Google. 15 tries, take a look ... of them, I reckon he had to actually 'do' something in 3-4 or so; the rest were catch and run straight. Someone should do a summary if they're bored... but it supports the narrative of a solid but unspectacular winger
Wouldn't Jordan's be pretty similar?
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@nzzp said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
Hope George is ready.
I google George Bridge Highlights. This was the first hit on Google. 15 tries, take a look ... of them, I reckon he had to actually 'do' something in 3-4 or so; the rest were catch and run straight. Someone should do a summary if they're bored... but it supports the narrative of a solid but unspectacular winger
Wouldn't Jordan's be pretty similar?
Jordan is one of those guys where the ball just falls for him. To the point where it happens much too often for it not to be a fluke.
Much like Sevu Reece gets flukey bounces way too often.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
rouge
Oui
Rouge et noir
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Seems to be the other way around. Any criticsm of his fuckups and really subpar performances and Crusaders fans come leaping out of the woodwork to defend him.
I’ve come up against that. Mentioned one time that I hoped Ethan Blackadder was not a plodder like his dad and it was an irrepressible wave of hate comments. Even tried to badgering me on messenger.
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Seems to be the other way around. Any criticsm of his fuckups and really subpar performances and Crusaders fans come leaping out of the woodwork to defend him.
I’ve come up against that. Mentioned one time that I hoped Ethan Blackadder was not a plodder like his dad and it was an irrepressible wave of hate comments. Even tried to badgering me on messenger.
Given that I'm not actually sure how I'd cyber stalk @broughie on actual soc med. That's weird.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@act-crusader What's that boxing analogy about a good big man vs a good little man.
Wait and see. I think Jordan is going to end up a very special player.
I don’t doubt that at all and have said as much previously. To me he has Dagg/Bender like class to him. I just don’t think we have to rush him and right now I think we are getting more from Reece.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@act-crusader What's that boxing analogy about a good big man vs a good little man.
Wait and see. I think Jordan is going to end up a very special player.
I don’t doubt that at all and have said as much previously. To me he has Dagg/Bender like class to him. I just don’t think we have to rush him and right now I think we are getting more from Reece.
Agree and agree and disagree. I think it's about time to put some minutes into him.
I do agree that Reece's workrate is really good right now, but this guy is special.
If Clarke regains some form, we'll have no shortage of dangerous outside backs.
I can't see a place for Dmac to return to after his sabbatical, he may be a 10 option at Super level and a squaddie at AB level, but even that last one will start getting hard once Jordan has a few more games in him.
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
Seems to be the other way around. Any criticsm of his fuckups and really subpar performances and Crusaders fans come leaping out of the woodwork to defend him.
I’ve come up against that. Mentioned one time that I hoped Ethan Blackadder was not a plodder like his dad and it was an irrepressible wave of hate comments. Even tried to badgering me on messenger.
Given that I'm not actually sure how I'd cyber stalk @broughie on actual soc med. That's weird.
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Full replay with the OZ commentary - may not stay up for long -
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I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
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I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
It's good for RM to get pushed either way. Jordie with his 60m+ range is a very valuable weapon with either player at 10.
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I watched again ... third time :grinning_squinting_face:, looking more at the backline.
My first conclusion was (I can't help how I watch a game!) I still really rate the loose forward combination. Papalli and Jacobson were huge, both all over the game for 3 of 4 quarters each ... Jacobson adding a 3rd/4th lineout option after the locks so Akira was doing less jumping. Very very physical and balanced as a unit. I'd seriously run with this as the #1 combination until Sam Cane is back. Cane likely gets his position back as AB captain but Paps looks the real deal to me (still). Start this three vs the Boks, put Ardie on the bench and ... let's see how they go.
BB was excellent (i.e. world class), options were good and taken with total committment - inclusing the way he hit the line ... like DC. One mistimed kick out on the full and one slightly aimless kick down the middle but overall he was giving the Pumas kittens with the variety of his option taking. TJP also very good indeed.
McKenzie was better than I thought on first watch. Hard to assess as 9 and 12 also changed so really 9-10-12 were very inexperienced at this level.
Rieko looks like a winger playing 13 and has real work ons, but his pace makes him very threatening. Prefer ALB but I can't see a downside to having a world-class wing who can step in at 13 for a couple of years?? Most sides would kill for what he can offer.
Pumas defended very well I thought, yet were comprehensively outplayed.
AB set piece was messy, else it could have been 50+
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I watched again ... third time :grinning_squinting_face:, looking more at the backline.
My first conclusion was (I can't help how I watch a game!) I still really rate the loose forward combination. Papalli and Jacobson were huge, both all over the game for 3 of 4 quarters each ... Jacobson adding a 3rd/4th lineout option after the locks so Akira was doing less jumping. Very very physical and balanced as a unit. I'd seriously run with this as the #1 combination until Sam Cane is back. Cane likely gets his position back as AB captain but Paps looks the real deal to me (still). Start this three vs the Boks, put Ardie on the bench and ... let's see how they go.
BB was excellent (i.e. world class), options were good and taken with total committment - inclusing the way he hit the line ... like DC. One mistimed kick out on the full and one slightly aimless kick down the middle but overall he was giving the Pumas kittens with the variety of his option taking. TJP also very good indeed.
McKenzie was better than I thought on first watch. Hard to assess as 9 and 12 also changed so really 9-10-12 were very inexperienced at this level.
Rieko looks like a winger playing 13 and has real work ons, but his pace makes him very threatening. Prefer ALB but I can't see a downside to having a world-class wing who can step in at 13 for a couple of years?? Most sides would kill for what he can offer.
Pumas defended very well I thought, yet were comprehensively outplayed.
AB set piece was messy, else it could have been 50+
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@l_n_p Reiko is also a key part of the 23 balance. If we don't play a 15/10 then we need a wing/centre.
The bench can then have reserve 9, reserve 10 (specialist), outside back impact OR midfield impact@crucial said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
@l_n_p Reiko is also a key part of the 23 balance. If we don't play a 15/10 then we need a wing/centre.
The bench can then have reserve 9, reserve 10 (specialist), outside back impact OR midfield impactEspecially longer-term. Bench is a bit thin/inexperienced. But given the players out right now that's hardly surprising. I'm assuming currently if Havilli goes down, ALB moves to 12 and Rieko to 13.
Watching again reminded me how much we tend to have confirmation bias, especially when tight we focus on every small mistake. But BB, TJP and DMac were all notably better than I thought watching live ...
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I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
The jury on Mo'unga is still out for me, he struggles against a committed defense and tends to just shovel the ball on when they are getting up in his face. Loved what I saw from Beauden in this match, taking the line on despite the hard tackling from the Argies, created lots of space and time for those outside him. That said, Beauden hasn't exactly been very consistent, so he needs to string some performances together. I'm 50/50 on who starts and who is on the bench.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
The jury on Mo'unga is still out for me, he struggles against a committed defense and tends to just shovel the ball on when they are getting up in his face. Loved what I saw from Beauden in this match, taking the line on despite the hard tackling from the Argies, created lots of space and time for those outside him. That said, Beauden hasn't exactly been very consistent, so he needs to string some performances together. I'm 50/50 on who starts and who is on the bench.
I'm not so worried about whether BB or Mounga as you need at least 2 quality 10s and neither are likely to play 80.
I guess I will never know if Jordan is a quality international fb until DMac leaves but that's a small shame. But given DMac leaves they'll need to look at other options.
The uproar over Bridge is mostly the fake news uproar that everyone on here thinks he was terrible, nah, most noted he had a solid game. So he isn't much more exciting than solid and arguably others winger have higher ceilings, so be it.
Midfield looking better these days (I assume Ennor won't get a turn at 13 but wing?) but we still lack depth in the forwards. -
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
The jury on Mo'unga is still out for me, he struggles against a committed defense and tends to just shovel the ball on when they are getting up in his face. Loved what I saw from Beauden in this match, taking the line on despite the hard tackling from the Argies, created lots of space and time for those outside him. That said, Beauden hasn't exactly been very consistent, so he needs to string some performances together. I'm 50/50 on who starts and who is on the bench.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Pumas I (yay we’re not playing the Aussies again):
I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
The jury on Mo'unga is still out for me, he struggles against a committed defense and tends to just shovel the ball on when they are getting up in his face. Loved what I saw from Beauden in this match, taking the line on despite the hard tackling from the Argies, created lots of space and time for those outside him. That said, Beauden hasn't exactly been very consistent, so he needs to string some performances together. I'm 50/50 on who starts and who is on the bench.
Very 50/50 indeed, in a healthy way though.
Gregor Paul just wrote a fanboi/fluffer piece after the first Pumas match about BB on the "RugbyXV" site but made a reasonable point that BB and Jordie look very comfortable together and had great understanding, no surprise. He kind of presented it as the Barrett brothers vs Mounga and McKenzie ... not sure I agree!
I'd rather they lock in a key moving part and make Jordie the #1 full-back, THEN decide 10. Richie Mounga at 10 and BB at 15 always seem to play like an unconscious "battle of the egos" for my eyes.
Regardless, BB had a really excellent game.
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Can't really do anything with this fucking vertigo, so I had this still on the sky recorded. 2 points that came up later in the year confirmed
- ABs attacking shape was fucking non existent, just individual brilliance made most of the tries. As mentioned above set piece was shit, but HEY we've got individual brilliance
- George bridge has no positive impact, he is such a pathetic thing to have as an all black 11. That's lomu's Jersey FFS.
Also TJ was rather good, aside from his desperate desire to take every penalty quickly. Conversely DMac was a fucking idiot, with no control, crap passing (first 6 mins, 3 passes to ground), and an ability to either pass to someone in a much poorer position, or run himself into a worse position.
