All Blacks vs Pumas II
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@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
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I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
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I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
Depth showcased
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I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
I feel like this should be my tag line, no need for further elaboration
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
I'm sure that was part of the reason they didn't likeh im but it wasn't just that. I would have said on here at the time (which was probably around that time can't be arsed fact checking exact time) that I was at a presso given by Reuben Thorne showing all the software and tech they use for analysis and training. He specifically used Akira as an example to show in his words, why the AB's would always take Luke Whitelock over him. Gist of it was.. ball in hand awesome.. no surprises.. pretty much every other workrate stat they tracked he was at the bottom of the pile.
He would have been given some pretty clear messaging on his workons, and if they weren't seeing any improvements in those stats they wouldn't take him.for example Samis workons given to him at the start of the year were improving his throwing and increasing his ball carry. Now strengths and clear to see on the weekend.
@williethewaiter said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
I'm sure that was part of the reason they didn't likeh im but it wasn't just that. I would have said on here at the time (which was probably around that time can't be arsed fact checking exact time) that I was at a presso given by Reuben Thorne showing all the software and tech they use for analysis and training. He specifically used Akira as an example to show in his words, why the AB's would always take Luke Whitelock over him. Gist of it was.. ball in hand awesome.. no surprises.. pretty much every other workrate stat they tracked he was at the bottom of the pile.
He would have been given some pretty clear messaging on his workons, and if they weren't seeing any improvements in those stats they wouldn't take him.for example Samis workons given to him at the start of the year were improving his throwing and increasing his ball carry. Now strengths and clear to see on the weekend.
We are only guessing but my guess is that its a combo of things. My take would be that blaming Shag as if he had some sort of vendetta is nowhere near the whole story.
My guess is that early on they set targets and work ons for him and expected that he would show his desire to be part of the team by working hard toward them. Thing was that Akira was doing well at domestic level just doing what he had always done and didn't get his head around any need to push harder. I'd say that lines were drawn and things said about attitude if he wanted to be part of the team and any indication that he wasn't taking those seriously just pissed Shag off. The old 'lead a horse to water' thing.
Akira himself said that he had a big turn around in mental approach. A kind of awakening and finally turned things around himself which is want the coaches wanted. It just took longer than hoped and they couldn't go back on demands made.Hansen deserves copping it for dumb shit like leaving Cane on the bench etc but I really believe this was one of those standard things that just didn't work for Akira at that time in his life (look at what a different person he is on field now).
One other bit of fake news around Shag was 'not settling on a midfield'. Injuries and availability seem to affect 12 and 13 constantly. There aren't many complaints about it at the moment but this year alone we have had one combo play 3 times and 2 others 3 times. Hardly settled and we still have to see what happens when Goodhue comes back. -
@williethewaiter said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
I'm sure that was part of the reason they didn't likeh im but it wasn't just that. I would have said on here at the time (which was probably around that time can't be arsed fact checking exact time) that I was at a presso given by Reuben Thorne showing all the software and tech they use for analysis and training. He specifically used Akira as an example to show in his words, why the AB's would always take Luke Whitelock over him. Gist of it was.. ball in hand awesome.. no surprises.. pretty much every other workrate stat they tracked he was at the bottom of the pile.
He would have been given some pretty clear messaging on his workons, and if they weren't seeing any improvements in those stats they wouldn't take him.for example Samis workons given to him at the start of the year were improving his throwing and increasing his ball carry. Now strengths and clear to see on the weekend.
We are only guessing but my guess is that its a combo of things. My take would be that blaming Shag as if he had some sort of vendetta is nowhere near the whole story.
My guess is that early on they set targets and work ons for him and expected that he would show his desire to be part of the team by working hard toward them. Thing was that Akira was doing well at domestic level just doing what he had always done and didn't get his head around any need to push harder. I'd say that lines were drawn and things said about attitude if he wanted to be part of the team and any indication that he wasn't taking those seriously just pissed Shag off. The old 'lead a horse to water' thing.
Akira himself said that he had a big turn around in mental approach. A kind of awakening and finally turned things around himself which is want the coaches wanted. It just took longer than hoped and they couldn't go back on demands made.Hansen deserves copping it for dumb shit like leaving Cane on the bench etc but I really believe this was one of those standard things that just didn't work for Akira at that time in his life (look at what a different person he is on field now).
One other bit of fake news around Shag was 'not settling on a midfield'. Injuries and availability seem to affect 12 and 13 constantly. There aren't many complaints about it at the moment but this year alone we have had one combo play 3 times and 2 others 3 times. Hardly settled and we still have to see what happens when Goodhue comes back.@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
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@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover. -
@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
Akira by the way I read him is a player you need to be honest with, and then tell him you back him and then do it.
I have coached a lot of players with that mind set, when and if you can get their trust they will give you 100% but you have to stay honest with that type of player and don't play head games.They need to know you rate them then they go to another Level. -
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
Akira by the way I read him is a player you need to be honest with, and then tell him you back him and then do it.
I have coached a lot of players with that mind set, when and if you can get their trust they will give you 100% but you have to stay honest with that type of player and don't play head games.They need to know you rate them then they go to another Level.@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
Akira by the way I read him is a player you need to be honest with, and then tell him you back him and then do it.
I have coached a lot of players with that mind set, when and if you can get their trust they will give you 100% but you have to stay honest with that type of player and don't play head games.They need to know you rate them then they go to another Level.He is certainly playing like a guy who looks increasingly comfortable in his position. Full credit to Leon and Fozzie's group for that. Shit that felt weird to say....
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
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@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
Experience in IMO,Learning to pace yourself comes with more game time,As you play more the game slows down for you, if that makes sense,Then you are looking wider within the game and your vision expands instead of having the tunnel vision of inexperience.
It gives you ability to read situations ahead of time a lot like a Dejavu as you recognise a previous game situation you have been in,or read what might happen ahead of a phase.Then you learn to short cut game situations to preserve your energy without losing your workrate or effectiveness. -
One area to watch is the bench loose forward spot. No one has really nailed that spot in the last couple of seasons and coming off the bench is a different requirement to starting.
In theory I'd say Ardie would be our best option as a bench loosie going forward but that won't happen unfortunately.
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One area to watch is the bench loose forward spot. No one has really nailed that spot in the last couple of seasons and coming off the bench is a different requirement to starting.
In theory I'd say Ardie would be our best option as a bench loosie going forward but that won't happen unfortunately.
It should be Ardie, but given that it won't I can see Blackadder getting that spot as he has a bit of Masoe about him.
On the other hand, if we play Ardie at 8, we already have 7 cover, so a 8/6 like Jacobson makes sense.
Given that Paps might also be able to over 6 in a trio with Cane and Ardie, Paps is an option too. That's not even talking about Sotutu, who cold be used in that situation with Cane going to 6.
We've got plenty of good ones.
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
Experience in IMO,Learning to pace yourself comes with more game time,As you play more the game slows down for you, if that makes sense,Then you are looking wider within the game and your vision expands instead of having the tunnel vision of inexperience.
It gives you ability to read situations ahead of time a lot like a Dejavu as you recognise a previous game situation you have been in,or read what might happen ahead of a phase.Then you learn to short cut game situations to preserve your energy without losing your workrate or effectiveness.@chris Makes complete sense. The stats showed that locks and backrow know they can't go 100% for 80 minutes so all "dial-back" their effort over a period to conserve energy (I won't call it a rest!)
That period was normally within Q2 and Q3. Q1 was always very high. Q4 was high if the game was tight ... so that dial-back is giving them the potential to go full-throttle in the last quarter when needed. (the stats were bloody good for seeing workrate ... #1/2/3 at rucks, did the player make an impact at rucks as well as normal stuff like carries, tackle count).
How to know when to dial-back - as you say - must be a combination of experience at international level and a bit of an artform.
Pumas game 1 - I noticed Papilli had a quiet patch from maybe 20-35 minutes ... he did his job but wasn't looking for extra work. Now Paps isn't lazy, tbh quite the opposite so I can only guess he'd figured that was his time to dial-back.
From 35-40 he suddenly starts to have a huge involvement again, hitting lots of rucks, comes off the back of the maul, makes a big turnover, all in that 5 minutes ... and he goes strongly through to 80.Pumas 2 game - I'd have to rewatch (again!!) but got the impression Ethan went flat out for 65 minutes, he was everywhere. I'm guessing he was running on fumes by 70, and he certainly looked like he hit a wall at 75.
Just interesting to see how these huge-workrate players when playing 80 minutes have to manage their own energy individually, and balance that in-game.
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One area to watch is the bench loose forward spot. No one has really nailed that spot in the last couple of seasons and coming off the bench is a different requirement to starting.
In theory I'd say Ardie would be our best option as a bench loosie going forward but that won't happen unfortunately.
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
In theory I'd sayArdie would be our best option as a bench loosie going forward.Agreed
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
Experience in IMO,Learning to pace yourself comes with more game time,As you play more the game slows down for you, if that makes sense,Then you are looking wider within the game and your vision expands instead of having the tunnel vision of inexperience.
It gives you ability to read situations ahead of time a lot like a Dejavu as you recognise a previous game situation you have been in,or read what might happen ahead of a phase.Then you learn to short cut game situations to preserve your energy without losing your workrate or effectiveness.@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
Experience in IMO,Learning to pace yourself comes with more game time,As you play more the game slows down for you, if that makes sense,Then you are looking wider within the game and your vision expands instead of having the tunnel vision of inexperience.
It gives you ability to read situations ahead of time a lot like a Dejavu as you recognise a previous game situation you have been in,or read what might happen ahead of a phase.Then you learn to short cut game situations to preserve your energy without losing your workrate or effectiveness.experience is huge in knowing how fast to go. Obviously i've never played at a really high level, but i've been lucky enough to play at a couple of different rep levels. What you find is the game just gets faster and faster. And when you first step up you can find yourself killing yourself trying to play like you would at a lower level (hit every ruck etc) when that's just not possible. The players around you are better, you just need to focus on doing less, better.
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@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
Experience in IMO,Learning to pace yourself comes with more game time,As you play more the game slows down for you, if that makes sense,Then you are looking wider within the game and your vision expands instead of having the tunnel vision of inexperience.
It gives you ability to read situations ahead of time a lot like a Dejavu as you recognise a previous game situation you have been in,or read what might happen ahead of a phase.Then you learn to short cut game situations to preserve your energy without losing your workrate or effectiveness.experience is huge in knowing how fast to go. Obviously i've never played at a really high level, but i've been lucky enough to play at a couple of different rep levels. What you find is the game just gets faster and faster. And when you first step up you can find yourself killing yourself trying to play like you would at a lower level (hit every ruck etc) when that's just not possible. The players around you are better, you just need to focus on doing less, better.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover.I was really impressed, thought he was huge on a detailed rewatch. I think he set out to give 100% and he left it all out there.
In fact ... even at minutes 74-75 he hits 3 or 4 rucks including getting to one on the far left side. Then suddenly from about minute 76 on he looks out on his feet, seems sluggish, even a bit wobbly, and heads to the right wing. I could be wrong but it looked think he'd given 105% throughout, hit the wall about then and was "hanging in there" from that point on.
Stats someone used to publish on GAGR on tackles and ruck involvements per quarter for locks and the backrows suggested that even those with amazing engines have to pace themselves by lowering their workrate and involvement and have one "quieter" quarter per game when they're playing the full 80 minutes. It was very consistent.
Not sure if this is planned or experience ... I guess both, as you'd need to adjust to the in-game situation? But you could see it even for players with huge engines like McCaw, Retallick, Hooper.
Experience in IMO,Learning to pace yourself comes with more game time,As you play more the game slows down for you, if that makes sense,Then you are looking wider within the game and your vision expands instead of having the tunnel vision of inexperience.
It gives you ability to read situations ahead of time a lot like a Dejavu as you recognise a previous game situation you have been in,or read what might happen ahead of a phase.Then you learn to short cut game situations to preserve your energy without losing your workrate or effectiveness.experience is huge in knowing how fast to go. Obviously i've never played at a really high level, but i've been lucky enough to play at a couple of different rep levels. What you find is the game just gets faster and faster. And when you first step up you can find yourself killing yourself trying to play like you would at a lower level (hit every ruck etc) when that's just not possible. The players around you are better, you just need to focus on doing less, better.
Yep thats exactly it you nailed it.You of course would have noticed the speed of the game and skill set goes up at Rep level.And you do go harder with less control to keep up,Once the brain adjusts to the speed of doing skill sets quicker you settle down and learn to find your zone within the game.
Not being an All Black I can only guess at the rate of the levels of Profesional Rugby. Only having played U19 and below Rep level Rugby and club.
I am lucky having made my living out of playing and coaching cricket same thing the game speeds up the higher you play. The better players adjust some never do and fall away.
