All Blacks vs Springboks I
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...
One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".
Calmest dude on the pitch.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...
One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".
Calmest dude on the pitch.
Maybe he was still pissed?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
looks a bit lightweight for centre
Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.
But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...
Fuck it made me laugh finding this after getting curious on your observation - look at the size of his fucking neck!
I would've picked him as a similar size to Rieko.
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
looks a bit lightweight for centre
Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.
But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...
Fuck it made me laugh finding this after getting curious on your observation - look at the size of his fucking neck!
I would've picked him as a similar size to Rieko.
Na just looks big cos of small shoulders
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
looks a bit lightweight for centre
Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.
But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...
Fuck it made me laugh finding this after getting curious on your observation - look at the size of his fucking neck!
I would've picked him as a similar size to Rieko.
Na just looks big cos of small shoulders
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...
One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".
Calmest dude on the pitch.
Maybe he was still pissed?
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...
One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".
Calmest dude on the pitch.
Maybe he was still pissed?
Imagine what a game he'd have had if sober...
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Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn -
Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi
Kwagga Smith + Kolisi = Boks trying to speed the game up, or perhaps Mostert has just been shit at blindside.
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@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi
Kwagga Smith + Kolisi = Boks trying to speed the game up, or perhaps Mostert has just been shit at blindside.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris I'm surprised ALB is so light.
tipping the scales at 102 i believe they had on the sky thingy they had on him
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris I'm surprised ALB is so light.
tipping the scales at 102 i believe they had on the sky thingy they had on him
102.8 kg to be exact.
(3:20 on the video) -
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.
I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.
We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.
well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish
Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.
Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.
Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.
I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.
We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.
well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish
Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.
Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.
Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48Most scored at much higher rate in early career. Would be interesting to see figures of the above for first 20 tests.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim I don't think anyone will cry into their cornflakes if we're "forced" to go with Ioane/Savea/Jacobson and Blackadder/Sotutu eh.
6/7/8 seems to be the one area we really don't need to worry too much about.
Would like ALB back though.
Yep. But I'm much less concerned now Reiko has some game time under his belt
Would still be a bit concerned if we ended up with DMac/Tuapea/Rieko in tight match with Boks. We’re still quite short on Backline ‘grey hair’.
Agreed, I was thinking more of BB/DH/RI.
That said, I want to see more DMac/Tuapea/Rieko playing together to build that experience.
My concern is that with no ALB in 23 we are quite vulnerable to an injury.
Whilst not ideal, Jordie has been used as a midfield option for the ABs should Ioane or Havili get injured.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim I don't think anyone will cry into their cornflakes if we're "forced" to go with Ioane/Savea/Jacobson and Blackadder/Sotutu eh.
6/7/8 seems to be the one area we really don't need to worry too much about.
Would like ALB back though.
Yep. But I'm much less concerned now Reiko has some game time under his belt
Would still be a bit concerned if we ended up with DMac/Tuapea/Rieko in tight match with Boks. We’re still quite short on Backline ‘grey hair’.
Agreed, I was thinking more of BB/DH/RI.
That said, I want to see more DMac/Tuapea/Rieko playing together to build that experience.
My concern is that with no ALB in 23 we are quite vulnerable to an injury.
Whilst not ideal, Jordie has been used as a midfield option for the ABs should Ioane or Havili get injured.
Two words: brain fade.
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Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans SteynBased on this, I think I’d start with Ofa and Moody, with Karl and Nepo off the bench.
Three quarters Rieko/ALB/Reece to start, with WJ on bench OR Reece/Rieko/WJ, with Tuapea on bench.
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@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi
Kwagga Smith + Kolisi = Boks trying to speed the game up, or perhaps Mostert has just been shit at blindside.
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi
Kwagga Smith + Kolisi = Boks trying to speed the game up, or perhaps Mostert has just been shit at blindside.
Siya isn’t up to speed, but not the done thing to bench him.
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Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans SteynWhich of those four or five aren’t up to it according to Laurie Mains ?
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.
I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.
We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.
well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish
Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.
Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.
Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48It's not that unusual for AB wingers to start their Test careers with a good try scoring rate. It's maintaining that strike rate after the first couple of years that seems to be quite tough.
These guys started out with fairly good try scoring rates.
Joe Rokocoko - 24 tries in first 16 tests
Julian Savea - 29 tries in first 25 tests
Tana Umaga - 22 tries in first 24 tests
Jonah Lomu - 14 tries in first 15 tests
Christian Cullen - 23 tries in first 23 Tests
Doug Howlett - 10 tries in first 11 Tests
Jeff Wilson - 20 tries in first 24 tests@dice said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.
I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.
We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.
well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish
Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.
Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.
Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48It's not that unusual for AB wingers to start their Test careers with a good try scoring rate. It's maintaining that strike rate after the first couple of years that seems to be quite tough.
These guys started out with fairly good try scoring rates.
Joe Rokocoko - 24 tries in first 16 tests
Julian Savea - 29 tries in first 25 tests
Tana Umaga - 22 tries in first 24 tests
Jonah Lomu - 14 tries in first 15 tests
Christian Cullen - 23 tries in first 23 Tests
Doug Howlett - 10 tries in first 11 Tests
Jeff Wilson - 20 tries in first 24 testsDo/Should we start automatically dropping wingers at 20 tests?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
looks a bit lightweight for centre
Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.
But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...
Fuck it made me laugh finding this after getting curious on your observation - look at the size of his fucking neck!
I would've picked him as a similar size to Rieko.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...
One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".
Calmest dude on the pitch.
Maybe he was still pissed?
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...
One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".
Calmest dude on the pitch.
Maybe he was still pissed?
Nah, he's a Waiuku man, if living there doesn't get to them I don't know what will.
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@bones that is the front! I swear he has gills and from the side it's a 1/3 the width! (Or maybe it was a stunt double). If I could be arsed I'd find the camera shot and send it to you...
@Bones
ok Braydon Ennor Neck time.
Of course the only quick photo I found was him and a streaker but you'll see he has a giraffe-like neck (or a tiny head) cantilevering his head forward in profile.. just makes it look like an easy target to smash. Big legs, good frame for a midfielder, but weirdly long neck, wide from front, narrow in profile.Anyway, he won't get injured again so I'll be glad to be proven wrong.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nepia I maintain the biggest issue with playing SB at 6, was the fact we carried on with the game plan we'd have had if Cane was out there rather than using SBs stregnth, BBBR was woefuly out of form too...
Don't throw some shade on the Magpie while defending the Cantab Mr Taniwha.
SB could have at least won a lineout or two.
@nepia again, goes back to the plan we used that didn't utilise a strength of him being there, which wasn't really his fault
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.
I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.
We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.
well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish
Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.
Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.
Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.
I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.
We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.
well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish
Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.
Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.
Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48Different eras ... you can prove anything with stats but ...
Some of those guys (Tana, Bender, Cullen, Goldie?) were not pure wingers or moved.
Plus you are comparing current AB's in early career vs "greats" at career-end (Savea, Sivivatu, Roks, Bender etc would have amazing stats at 10, 20, 30 tests, yeah?)
Plus DC and Merthens were certainly better goal-kickers than we have now. DC taking a 3 from 40m was a pretty sure option vs say BB?
Maybe tactically defenses are far better organized so now ... proportionally meaning the risk/reward of going wide with the right timing becomes the best (often only?) try scoring option vs 15-20 years ago when defenses were more porous across the field. Witness all the cross kicking now too which is exactly this.
You triggered me :face_with_tears_of_joy: :face_with_tears_of_joy:
