Panama Papers

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578861" data-time="1462977322">
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They can protect assets against voracious creditors, 
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And just ordinary creditors, as well.
 
See occasional references to assholes who've (almost) totally mismanaged their businesses, gone broke leaving dozens of "little guys" badly out of pocket - and they're holed up in their $10 million "trust-owned" mansion with their own assets neatly protected.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="578906" data-time="1463008387">
And just ordinary creditors, as well. 
See occasional references to assholes who've (almost) totally mismanaged their businesses, gone broke leaving dozens of "little guys" badly out of pocket - and they're holed up in their $10 million "trust-owned" mansion with their own assets neatly protected.</blockquote>
 
Building industry is full of these mobile organ banks . I remember seeing one on pleading poverty on tv and he was pretty convincing , a few weeks later he was back on tv trying to shield his face as he backed out of the driveway of his palatial house in a seven series Bmw after it turned out he'd hidden plenty of coin away .

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="578902" data-time="1463007903">
Apparently the drums are beating for Jacinda Ardern. TVNZ will fawn over her, and the rest of NZ will find her as unimpressive as the previous lot.</blockquote>
 
I would. 
I wouldn't vote for her though.

Mokey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="578903" data-time="1463007996">
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I don't mind her, but for me the issue is Labour seem to be so focused on trying to tear National down all the time, rather than focusing on sorting out their own shit and building up their supporter base.
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That's the thing. When did the opposition last do something of their own bat, to bring about positive change for NZers? Louisa Wall and the marriage equality bill? That showed gumption and leadership, and showed how parties could work together to achieve better outcomes for a whole bunch of people regardless of location, age, income, voter pref etc.
 
The constant muck raking and attacks and 'that sucks cos John Key said it/suggested it' is so fucking tiresome, and only demonstrates further than that is all Labour and the Greens have. THAT is why people won't vote for them. Cos they know if they were in power, they'd be all holy fuck, what do we do now, we can't just heckle the other side!

Tim

At the end of the day I'm mostly looking for the following from a political party:
 
(i) What will you do to reduce my expenses?
 
(ii) What will you do to increase my career opportunities?
 
Labour isn't selling me anything as far as I can tell.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="578925" data-time="1463011979">
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At the end of the day I'm mostly looking for the following from a political party:
 
(i) What will you do to reduce my expenses?
 
(ii) What will you do to increase my career opportunities?
 
Labour isn't selling me anything as far as I can tell.
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All Labour is trying to sell is that John Key is bad for NZ.

Baron Silas Greenback

I don't really agree with the criticism over lack of policy fro labour. Less is mroe in som,e cases. They should not be expected to have lots of policy at this stage in the election cycle. Unfortunately for them.. they not only lack proper policy, the policy they do have is all destructive and 'attack'.
 
They are continually being disagreeable for the sake of it. If National say Black is Black.. Labour will claim Black is White. Just total kneejerk bullshit. The reason National beat labour was that the electorate got sick of govt..... not because national had piles of great new policy. Labour on the other hand.. just have to bleat about everything, so when they do have a good point.. nobody cares.
 
Labour Education spokesman criticises charter schools.. yet has NEVER stepped foot in a single one... he has had 5 years.
 
Add to the facts that they are just sliding further and further left under the leadership of union twats.. and Labour could be in opposition for a VERY long time. If Winston wasnt so old, I could actually see a party like NZF becoming the main opposition party,

Tim

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="578930" data-time="1463012588">
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I don't really agree with the criticism over lack of policy fro labour. Less is mroe in som,e cases. They should not be expected to have lots of policy at this stage in the election cycle. Unfortunately for them.. they not only lack proper policy, the policy they do have is all destructive and 'attack'.
 
They are continually being disagreeable for the sake of it. If National say Black is Black.. Labour will claim Black is White. Just total kneejerk bullshit. The reason National beat labour was that the electorate got sick of govt..... not because national had piles of great new policy. Labour on the other hand.. just have to bleat about everything, so when they do have a good point.. nobody cares.
 
Labour Education spokesman criticises charter schools.. yet has NEVER stepped foot in a single one... he has had 5 years.
 
Add to the facts that they are just sliding further and further left under the leadership of union twats.. and Labour could be in opposition for a VERY long time. If Winston wasnt so old, I could actually see a party like NZF becoming the main opposition party,
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Hence my point about selling me something. They might have some good policies, but it would be hard to know, as they seem to spend all their time attacking the government on generally trivial points.

MajorRage

As long as my white trash relatives who think they are owed everything, and owe everybody nothing continue to bleat on social media about John Key and National, I'll vote for them. The second they start to say something positive about the government, is when I'll re-consider my position.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="578930" data-time="1463012588">
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I don't really agree with the criticism over lack of policy fro labour. Less is mroe in som,e cases. They should not be expected to have lots of policy at this stage in the election cycle. Unfortunately for them.. they not only lack proper policy, the policy they do have is all destructive and 'attack'.
 
They are continually being disagreeable for the sake of it. If National say Black is Black.. Labour will claim Black is White. Just total kneejerk bullshit. The reason National beat labour was that the electorate got sick of govt..... not because national had piles of great new policy. Labour on the other hand.. just have to bleat about everything, so when they do have a good point.. nobody cares.
 
Labour Education spokesman criticises charter schools.. yet has NEVER stepped foot in a single one... he has had 5 years.
 
Add to the facts that they are just sliding further and further left under the leadership of union twats.. and Labour could be in opposition for a VERY long time. If Winston wasnt so old, I could actually see a party like NZF becoming the main opposition party,
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This will get messy for labour soon I reckon.
 
National ,despite leftards casting them as right wing nutjobs who want to enslave toddlers and sell off our hospitals have been pretty left leaning throughout their term so far. Last month for example they increased the minimum wage and benefits and bought in more worker safety regulations that labour ever dared during their nine years in office, its hilarious to see lefards claiming the elecotrate wants labour to move leftwards, theres not much room for them there execept to the lunatic fringes occupied by mana and the greens . What they want is someone who looks competent and they can identify with, a lifelong union hack who can't even win his own seat is not that person.
Btw Ardern can't win her own seat either.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="578937" data-time="1463013604">
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As long as my white trash relatives who think they are owed everything, and owe everybody nothing continue to bleat on social media about John Key and National, I'll vote for them. The second they start to say something positive about the government, is when I'll re-consider my position.
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Its fun asking these cretins what exactly they don't like about national, they usually sputter something about pulling ponytails or something similarly trivial.

taniwharugby

of course they have policy, but aren't really things that will get people thinking 'these guys could do some good if they get in' but then what policy they do try to sell get pushed out of the spotlight because of John Key and some other mud-flinging exercise Labour get involved in, more often than not, alongside the Greens.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="578946" data-time="1463014244">
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Its fun asking these cretins what exactly they don't like about national, they usually sputter something about pulling ponytails or something similarly trivial. 
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I don't have to do much surface scratching to work out the real issue. It's because John Key is rich. And therefore, he thinks like somebody who is rich,and has no real feeling for the working class masses.
 
There is probably some truth in that, but there is a reason that the working class masses are not the prime minister as well.

No Quarter

Cunliffe tried to run a "Mr Nice Guy" campaign, which was totally ineffective and he made himself look like an incompetent idiot. Little is trying to run smear campaigns with no basis in truth, and is making himself look like an incompetent idiot.
 
One of Labours problems is they are seen to be aligned with the Greens. That may have been fine 5 years ago, but the Greens have gone further and further left, and instead of being a party that cares for the environment and will attempt to influence any particular government on environmental issues, they have gone extreme far left and have some fucking ridiculous ideologies that basically tell people they are living their lives wrong, and if they want to be "good" and "moral" they need to live like this. People cannot be fucked with their bullshit anymore.
 
Little is killing Labour at the moment, and I don't think Adern is the answer too (I've seen her say some remarkably stupid shit). It really shouldn't be that difficult to win the next election given how long National has been in power, but right now I can't see it happening.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="579031" data-time="1463025653">
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People cannot be fucked with their bullshit anymore.
 
It really shouldn't be that difficult to win the next election given how long National has been in power, but right now I can't see it happening.
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That may be because you pay attention to politics.
 
A large chunk of the population don't, so they only see Andrew Little rubbishing John Key maybe one time in ten. They don't bother analyzing the issue and might well come to incorrect conclusions if they did. Mike Hosking or John Campbell tell them what to think - if anyone at all does.
 
I'm regularly surprised talking to quite intelligent people how little attention they pay to politics - and from discussions I follow here, some of you guys definitely spend vastly more time following it than me. On the other side of the coin, I'd be doubtful if some of the people I went to school with could tell you who the Deputy Prime Minister is.
 
That's my theory on why Trump can take a large chunk of the political cognoscenti by surprise. People in Washington (and Wellington) are far too close to politics to make a disinterested assessment of political tides.
 
Labour needs the media to get solidly behind the idea that National has been in power too long and run out of ideas and the only need a vaguely credible platform to win on.
 
It is a popularity contest.

jegga

To a certain degree they have the media on their side, they were feral in their coverage of the last election and they've been all over the Panama leaks . Problem is I don't think people trust the media too much either . 
I still maintain if Shearer had been given some decent media training and support from his party he'd have given Key a run for his money in 2014 . Labour were polling in the high 30s when he was leader , they slumped to the high 20s with him gone . Shearer looked absolutely furious on tv the morning after the election , I can't say I blame him after the way he was treated.

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="578906" data-time="1463008387">
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And just ordinary creditors, as well.
 
See occasional references to assholes who've (almost) totally mismanaged their businesses, gone broke leaving dozens of "little guys" badly out of pocket - and they're holed up in their $10 million "trust-owned" mansion with their own assets neatly protected.
</div>
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No doubt. But that is not the trust structure at fault it is the totally unprincipled bit of cockwash that has used it. There are thousands of such people that don't use trusts that avoid paying their genuine creditors. Phoenix companies are rife, where a limited company with massive liabilities goes into voluntary liquidation and then a new company starts up the next day, with the same people and the same premises but without the liabilities. This does not make limited companies a bad thing and nor does your example make trusts a bad thing.

jegga

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80094729/the-overcrowded-south-auckland-house-that-wasnt-overcrowded'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80094729/the-overcrowded-south-auckland-house-that-wasnt-overcrowded</a>
 
<img src="http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif" alt="facepalm.gif">

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="580388" data-time="1463467286">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80094729/the-overcrowded-south-auckland-house-that-wasnt-overcrowded'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80094729/the-overcrowded-south-auckland-house-that-wasnt-overcrowded</a>
 
<img src="http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif" alt="facepalm.gif">
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What happens when you employ clowns as advisors.

The Silver Fern

Panama Papers