All Blacks vs USA
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs USA:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs USA:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@gt12 Vaa'i conceded one penalty when entering the ruck from the side.
I was hoping to see more ball carries from de Groot. Not much different to our other props in his ability.
Ennor never looks that threatening at centre.
Cheers - roughly what time in the game, I might rewatch and will try to catch that part?
The first 20 or so he gave away a few, not on ESPN, but I'm pretty sure it was him
In the first 20 of the game???
I think we only conceded one penalty during that time (ginga holding on) as pretty much every time we touched it we scored.
Sorry I was meaning unneeded offloads, anyway far too long ago to remember! Games not good enough for me to watch again, I'll concede I could be talking utter bollocks, but that was my impression. Too many errors
@machpants said in All Blacks vs USA:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs USA:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs USA:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@gt12 Vaa'i conceded one penalty when entering the ruck from the side.
I was hoping to see more ball carries from de Groot. Not much different to our other props in his ability.
Ennor never looks that threatening at centre.
Cheers - roughly what time in the game, I might rewatch and will try to catch that part?
The first 20 or so he gave away a few, not on ESPN, but I'm pretty sure it was him
In the first 20 of the game???
I think we only conceded one penalty during that time (ginga holding on) as pretty much every time we touched it we scored.
Sorry I was meaning unneeded offloads, anyway far too long ago to remember! Games not good enough for me to watch Sassoon, I'll concede I could be talking utter bollocks, but that was my impression. Too many errors
I think you're very harsh.
I can only see one error during the first 22 minutes, which is when he attempts a long pass which gets batted down and we score from anyway.
2:50 runs and takes the tackle
5:07 tries a long pass on their 5 metre line which is knocked down and De Groot picks it up to score
7:13 beautiful short ball to De Groot
11:23 runs and takes the tackle
11:52 passes behind the pod to McKenzie (we get penalty)
12:04 strong run and takes the tackle
15:50 wins lineout
19:20 nice short ball to QT
21:54: Runs and takes the tackle. -
I did he whole first half for Vaa'i - I think he was worse during this quarter in comparison to the first 20:
23:55: Runs to settle things down and takes the tackle. Next phase we score
27:55 loses the ball in the tackle with the line in sight but the tackle was high and we get the penalty
32:09 competes at the line out and knocks it on
35:02 this is the first bad one - it's an offload that didn't need to be thrown and goes to hand but was totally un-needed
35:11 Runs and takes the tackle
37:40 takes the kickoff and tackle -
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An interesting feature that I don't think anyone has mentioned, is that when Mo'unga went off, DMac took over the goal-kicking.
Seems like Beaudy is giving that away.
Be interesting to see who kicks when Richie and Jordie are paired together.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs USA:
An interesting feature that I don't think anyone has mentioned, is that when Mo'unga went off, DMac took over the goal-kicking.
Seems like Beaudy is giving that away.
Be interesting to see who kicks when Richie and Jordie are paired together.
It would be hard to ignore Jordie’s form, he’s been great this year. Maybe Mo’unga for the short kicks and Jordie for the longer range kicks..?
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs USA:
An interesting feature that I don't think anyone has mentioned, is that when Mo'unga went off, DMac took over the goal-kicking.
Seems like Beaudy is giving that away.
Be interesting to see who kicks when Richie and Jordie are paired together.
It would be hard to ignore Jordie’s form, he’s been great this year. Maybe Mo’unga for the short kicks and Jordie for the longer range kicks..?
@canes4life Will definitely be Jordie for the really big ones.
It might actually be a bit of a pointer as to how they see contest for the 10 jersey.
It would be a little bit odd to have Richie do the kicking when he played 10, if Beaudy was No. 1 and Jordie was kicking in the big tests.
On the other hand, I think Richie has always been the No. 1 kicker when he's played to date.
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@canes4life Will definitely be Jordie for the really big ones.
It might actually be a bit of a pointer as to how they see contest for the 10 jersey.
It would be a little bit odd to have Richie do the kicking when he played 10, if Beaudy was No. 1 and Jordie was kicking in the big tests.
On the other hand, I think Richie has always been the No. 1 kicker when he's played to date.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs USA:
@canes4life Will definitely be Jordie for the really big ones.
It might actually be a bit of a pointer as to how they see contest for the 10 jersey.
It would be a little bit odd to have Richie do the kicking when he played 10, if Beaudy was No. 1 and Jordie was kicking in the big tests.
On the other hand, I think Richie has always been the No. 1 kicker when he's played to date.
Normally they decide themselves, so they'll chat about it and go with it. It's not directed from coach or leadership
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs USA:
@canes4life Will definitely be Jordie for the really big ones.
It might actually be a bit of a pointer as to how they see contest for the 10 jersey.
It would be a little bit odd to have Richie do the kicking when he played 10, if Beaudy was No. 1 and Jordie was kicking in the big tests.
On the other hand, I think Richie has always been the No. 1 kicker when he's played to date.
Normally they decide themselves, so they'll chat about it and go with it. It's not directed from coach or leadership
@machpants said in All Blacks vs USA:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs USA:
@canes4life Will definitely be Jordie for the really big ones.
It might actually be a bit of a pointer as to how they see contest for the 10 jersey.
It would be a little bit odd to have Richie do the kicking when he played 10, if Beaudy was No. 1 and Jordie was kicking in the big tests.
On the other hand, I think Richie has always been the No. 1 kicker when he's played to date.
Normally they decide themselves, so they'll chat about it and go with it. It's not directed from coach or leadership
Most of the time, though, for quite a few years it has been pretty clear cut and except when the first five is an absolute rookie or carrying an injury, it seems to me they have got first refusal and taken the job.
If they stick with that protocol, it will be Richie - but, if I were Jordie, I'd be pretty keen to keep the kicking duties.
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@frye said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nepia what do you define as cracking the ton?
Did you keep reading the rest of the thread?
You seemed to have made the same mistake as I did by posting before the end.
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@frye said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nepia what do you define as cracking the ton?
Did you keep reading the rest of the thread?
You seemed to have made the same mistake as I did by posting before the end.
I only just watched (a grainy version of) the match and it was hard to shake the feeling I was just watching the highlights.
Apart from 9 (best halfback and one of the best on the pitch for me) and the 12 it really looked like the Eagles were used to gentlemen's rugby. Farsighted aggressive strategy, speedy strikes, weren't really their thing.
They stayed fitter for longer than I was expecting though.
Sam looked a bit creaky next to Lord, who might have stepped out of a Willy Wonka factory but was still quite athletic and surprisingly fast for a big guy.
I suspect Vaa'i was told to run at everything and hustle them, which he did, so I'd forgive him for a few rushed errors.
DMac has such quick hands I suspect he is competing with Beauden for the spare 10 role, apart from a good stretch of his legs I thought the latter was rather quiet, while DMac was the catalyst for most activities and was most found out defending at fb but energetic and creative as playmaker.
Props were good (ok Bones, I could see the aerobic value of Angus in this match) and I do like the look of De Groot, I did notice any crazy mistakes from the hookers (ok a few early lineout throws were a bit edgy) and our forwards I thought were good. Not a time for 7s to shine and Sotutu made some mistakes but I thought he also took some key steals and his linking is great. Jacobson looks a bit more comfortable at 6 than 8 for me but yes, dangerous to make too many predictions on this game.
Great to see a traditional 12 run straight and hard again (is Havili in trouble for 12? Not sure, Foster and co. are quite conservative/loyal), I agree Ennor looked more dangerous on the wing than at 13 (imagine, an 11 who likes the sideline and is not called Rieko)...it was very strange how active Jordan was compared to Bridge, including on Bridge's side. Given the one non-burst from Bridge, who looks slower than our 6 today, I wonder if he is actually carrying an injury?
I forgot to mention our 9s, I liked how Christie just concentrated on the basics, although against more physical sides I'd be worried he might blow over in the wind. I thought TJP did not start too badly then got slower and slower, as if he was playing in Instagram-friendly quicksand, and his decisions weren't great even if the support play was still there. And he also seemed to forget how to clear from behind the ruck. I would have thought that and passing would be things one could improve on with time.
One concern for me is that no matter who is playing, when the bench is cleared our organization, structure, basic skills, goes completely to merde. Surely it should be getting a little bit better by now? It's not like today we were playing S Africa with super-dangerous players riding the pine. -
replay with a foreign commentary -
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
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@frye said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nepia what do you define as cracking the ton?
Did you keep reading the rest of the thread?
You seemed to have made the same mistake as I did by posting before the end.
@nepia said in All Blacks vs USA:
@frye said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nepia what do you define as cracking the ton?
Did you keep reading the rest of the thread?
You seemed to have made the same mistake as I did by posting before the end.
I blame the forum software.
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs USA:
@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs USA:
As normal can't hear the frikkin questions
Another thing to blame Foster aye
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
@junior said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
I actually think he would’ve made a good go at 1st 5. Not world class but he obviously thrives with ball in hand and creating play, but without the passing from the base.
All those attributes you listed would work well at 10 without him having to possess a superior ground ball passing game.
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@junior said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
I actually think he would’ve made a good go at 1st 5. Not world class but he obviously thrives with ball in hand and creating play, but without the passing from the base.
All those attributes you listed would work well at 10 without him having to possess a superior ground ball passing game.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs USA:
@junior said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
I actually think he would’ve made a good go at 1st 5. Not world class but he obviously thrives with ball in hand and creating play, but without the passing from the base.
All those attributes you listed would work well at 10 without him having to possess a superior ground ball passing game.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the bolded part is particularly interesting. I wonder if his problem here is that he's too tall or maybe his legs are too long. It's a weird comment, I know, but a guy with long legs and a long stride is going to be at a bit of disadvantage when squatting down to clear the ball off the deck. He's going to be relying much more on hip hinge to get down at sweep the ball off the deck, meaning he's more likely to be off balance than a guy with shorter legs who can bend at the knees and squat much more easily. That's probably just a nerdy biomechanical way of saying that he's just not built to be a passing halfback.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
@junior I have always appreciated him as a player. He has actually played pretty well at 1st five for the Canes. Good vision and pretty good kicking game. Maybe league would have accommodated his style of play. What do you guys think who watch league more? In the same vein I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size, excellent at super rugby, but would imagine he would have been a fantastic halfback.
