All Blacks vs USA
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@victor-meldrew But against the sides that are going to cause us problems like the Bok and perhaps England and Australia his size is an issue. But that is why I prefer Jordy.
@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
@victor-meldrew But against the sides that are going to cause us problems like the Bok and perhaps England and Australia his size is an issue. But that is why I prefer Jordy.
At the moment and on current form, JB's the man, but I wouldn't make size a criteria.
England didn't cause DMac any problems in 2018 against England - quite the opposite. He was one of the best players in that game and on that tour in general, and none of the teams he played against contained collections of midgets.
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I see novices are using players running wild against USA to say other players are under threat. Let’s see Quinn against a proper team first before saying Havili is dooooomed.
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs USA:
I see novices are using players running wild against USA to say other players are under threat. Let’s see Quinn against a proper team first before saying Havili is dooooomed.
Kind of agree but pretty sure that against the tougher teams QT would make an extra metre or two forward and use five metres less width.
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size.
Not sure about the size argument. His lack of size didn't stop him from being outstanding against the NH sides in 2018 and he's no worse under the high ball than other players. His defence is generally pretty good to outstanding:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs USA:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size.
Not sure about the size argument. His lack of size didn't stop him from being outstanding against the NH sides in 2018 and he's no worse under the high ball than other players. His defence is generally pretty good to outstanding:
That should've been a penalty to Fiji.
DMac's still a great threat in broken play, but he's not the threat he was pre-knee injury. He was badly exposed by the American scrumhalf. In much the same way Kellaway did. This was a game that suited DMac's strengths and it showed.
USA were too shit to raw conclusions from.
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
@victor-meldrew But against the sides that are going to cause us problems like the Bok and perhaps England and Australia his size is an issue. But that is why I prefer Jordy.
At the moment and on current form, JB's the man, but I wouldn't make size a criteria.
England didn't cause DMac any problems in 2018 against England - quite the opposite. He was one of the best players in that game and on that tour in general, and none of the teams he played against contained collections of midgets.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs USA:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
@victor-meldrew But against the sides that are going to cause us problems like the Bok and perhaps England and Australia his size is an issue. But that is why I prefer Jordy.
At the moment and on current form, JB's the man, but I wouldn't make size a criteria.
England didn't cause DMac any problems in 2018 against England - quite the opposite. He was one of the best players in that game and on that tour in general, and none of the teams he played against contained collections of midgets.
I must be one of DMac’s biggest defenders on here especially against those that continue to make judgments based on things they saw him do years ago and not the more mature player he is now ( Nonu syndrome).
However even I can see how the smarter teams will spot him or try to put him into a position where they can run a big man at him front on.
In part it is his terrier like attitude that gets him into these positions, like defending two out from a ruck near the line rather than getting others to fill the gap.
Tenacious defender but there are times when size outranks will.
As for that England game didn’t Eddie design that set piece try that pulled him one way then immediately switched so that he was sweeping from too far away as his tackle was too little too late? -
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
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@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs USA:
@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
Must be some amazing athletes out there that I haven't seen
You are missing his biggest asset. He sees space! Very much a heads up player and that be the winning of a close game.
In the past he have often gone looking to exploit it himself if no one else is there but he has tempered that with some better realisation of the %s.
As long as JB is playing well I am happy for him to be at 15 but Mac on the bench for 10 is a nice option to have. He's playing better than BB if looking at consistency.All of our 10 options have moments of brilliance and passages of averageness along with their weaknesses. RM is still a weakness in defence (we have to shuffle to cover him and these days that's a recipe for an error). Not convinced on his game management either.
BB can pull rabbits out of hats if the opportunity arises but I never feel that the rest of the backline attacks to their potential from unbroken play with him running the show.
DMacs kicking game from hand can be wayward and although he will make the tackles they usually concede metres. Of the three though I prefer his passing game and runner selection. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs USA:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size.
Not sure about the size argument. His lack of size didn't stop him from being outstanding against the NH sides in 2018 and he's no worse under the high ball than other players. His defence is generally pretty good to outstanding:
That should've been a penalty to Fiji.
DMac's still a great threat in broken play, but he's not the threat he was pre-knee injury. He was badly exposed by the American scrumhalf. In much the same way Kellaway did. This was a game that suited DMac's strengths and it showed.
USA were too shit to raw conclusions from.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs USA:
DMac's still a great threat in broken play, but he's not the threat he was pre-knee injury. He was badly exposed by the American scrumhalf. In much the same way Kellaway did. This was a game that suited DMac's strengths and it showed.
USA were too shit to raw conclusions from.
That US halfback used to play winger and knows how to step and flatfoot a defender like good wingers do (take note Mr Bridge). Yep he got done but it was done by a very good play. Making that tackle is like a football goalie in a penalty shoot. The runner will get past more often than not.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs USA:
DMac's still a great threat in broken play, but he's not the threat he was pre-knee injury. He was badly exposed by the American scrumhalf. In much the same way Kellaway did. This was a game that suited DMac's strengths and it showed.
USA were too shit to raw conclusions from.
That US halfback used to play winger and knows how to step and flatfoot a defender like good wingers do (take note Mr Bridge). Yep he got done but it was done by a very good play. Making that tackle is like a football goalie in a penalty shoot. The runner will get past more often than not.
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs USA:
DMac's still a great threat in broken play, but he's not the threat he was pre-knee injury. He was badly exposed by the American scrumhalf. In much the same way Kellaway did. This was a game that suited DMac's strengths and it showed.
USA were too shit to raw conclusions from.
That US halfback used to play winger and knows how to step and flatfoot a defender like good wingers do (take note Mr Bridge). Yep he got done but it was done by a very good play. Making that tackle is like a football goalie in a penalty shoot. The runner will get past more often than not.
He finished the game on the wing
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DMac wasn't really to blame for USA's first try, he was sprinting across to cover an expected break, most good players will step a player in that position pretty easily. It was non-existent ruck defense that was the problem there.
Jordan was 100% to blame for their second try though, that was really soft defense.
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@No-Quarter I was just typing the same thing. We have to give some credit to Augspurger.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs USA:
@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
Must be some amazing athletes out there that I haven't seen
You are missing his biggest asset. He sees space! Very much a heads up player and that be the winning of a close game.
In the past he have often gone looking to exploit it himself if no one else is there but he has tempered that with some better realisation of the %s.
As long as JB is playing well I am happy for him to be at 15 but Mac on the bench for 10 is a nice option to have. He's playing better than BB if looking at consistency.All of our 10 options have moments of brilliance and passages of averageness along with their weaknesses. RM is still a weakness in defence (we have to shuffle to cover him and these days that's a recipe for an error). Not convinced on his game management either.
BB can pull rabbits out of hats if the opportunity arises but I never feel that the rest of the backline attacks to their potential from unbroken play with him running the show.
DMacs kicking game from hand can be wayward and although he will make the tackles they usually concede metres. Of the three though I prefer his passing game and runner selection.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs USA:
@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
Must be some amazing athletes out there that I haven't seen
You are missing his biggest asset. He sees space! Very much a heads up player and that be the winning of a close game.
In the past he have often gone looking to exploit it himself if no one else is there but he has tempered that with some better realisation of the %s.
As long as JB is playing well I am happy for him to be at 15 but Mac on the bench for 10 is a nice option to have. He's playing better than BB if looking at consistency.All of our 10 options have moments of brilliance and passages of averageness along with their weaknesses. RM is still a weakness in defence (we have to shuffle to cover him and these days that's a recipe for an error). Not convinced on his game management either.
BB can pull rabbits out of hats if the opportunity arises but I never feel that the rest of the backline attacks to their potential from unbroken play with him running the show.
DMacs kicking game from hand can be wayward and although he will make the tackles they usually concede metres. Of the three though I prefer his passing game and runner selection.Ok, imagine Jordie running onto a kick against DMac defending the line
Yes his ability to see space, I did not mention, because that is a great attribute for 10! (As well as for 15, granted).
I thought though you missed another virtue, he is far better at conversions at the moment than BB.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs USA:
@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
Must be some amazing athletes out there that I haven't seen
You are missing his biggest asset. He sees space! Very much a heads up player and that be the winning of a close game.
In the past he have often gone looking to exploit it himself if no one else is there but he has tempered that with some better realisation of the %s.
As long as JB is playing well I am happy for him to be at 15 but Mac on the bench for 10 is a nice option to have. He's playing better than BB if looking at consistency.All of our 10 options have moments of brilliance and passages of averageness along with their weaknesses. RM is still a weakness in defence (we have to shuffle to cover him and these days that's a recipe for an error). Not convinced on his game management either.
BB can pull rabbits out of hats if the opportunity arises but I never feel that the rest of the backline attacks to their potential from unbroken play with him running the show.
DMacs kicking game from hand can be wayward and although he will make the tackles they usually concede metres. Of the three though I prefer his passing game and runner selection.Ok, imagine Jordie running onto a kick against DMac defending the line
Yes his ability to see space, I did not mention, because that is a great attribute for 10! (As well as for 15, granted).
I thought though you missed another virtue, he is far better at conversions at the moment than BB.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs USA:
@arhs said in All Blacks vs USA:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs USA:
@ARHS Some of Cully's player ratings had me puzzled too.
What about TJ saying DMac missed a conversion when he didn't?
I was annoyed by that because I was waiting for them to confirm he had just brought up 100 points in test rugby. The TJ put his flag up too - so I was mystified. Then they had a covert conversion next time while the cameras were elsewhere. Still no mention of the century. Don't know why DMac cops so much when he is such a positive role model for the game.
DMac plays in positions where howlers stand out and as recently as last year (I think?) he made one or two howlers, but yeah, more so when he first started, and those sort of early mistakes can be hard to shake.
I also agree he is normally a good tackler but at fb he can be pushed back, swatted away or leaped over and it is harder for him to bundle big players out over the sidelines. I'd agree the size difference hasn't mostly been a huge difference and I'd say he has played more and more consistently, but in the last game, he really did look like a 10 playing at 15 (in a good way)! And I'd agree he'd probably make a good 9 especially at the base of the ruck, seems to have quick hands.
Must be some amazing athletes out there that I haven't seen
You are missing his biggest asset. He sees space! Very much a heads up player and that be the winning of a close game.
In the past he have often gone looking to exploit it himself if no one else is there but he has tempered that with some better realisation of the %s.
As long as JB is playing well I am happy for him to be at 15 but Mac on the bench for 10 is a nice option to have. He's playing better than BB if looking at consistency.All of our 10 options have moments of brilliance and passages of averageness along with their weaknesses. RM is still a weakness in defence (we have to shuffle to cover him and these days that's a recipe for an error). Not convinced on his game management either.
BB can pull rabbits out of hats if the opportunity arises but I never feel that the rest of the backline attacks to their potential from unbroken play with him running the show.
DMacs kicking game from hand can be wayward and although he will make the tackles they usually concede metres. Of the three though I prefer his passing game and runner selection.Ok, imagine Jordie running onto a kick against DMac defending the line
Yes his ability to see space, I did not mention, because that is a great attribute for 10! (As well as for 15, granted).
I thought though you missed another virtue, he is far better at conversions at the moment than BB.
Yeah. Your initial comment sounded like tackle situations
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs USA:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
@victor-meldrew But against the sides that are going to cause us problems like the Bok and perhaps England and Australia his size is an issue. But that is why I prefer Jordy.
At the moment and on current form, JB's the man, but I wouldn't make size a criteria.
England didn't cause DMac any problems in 2018 against England - quite the opposite. He was one of the best players in that game and on that tour in general, and none of the teams he played against contained collections of midgets.
I must be one of DMac’s biggest defenders on here especially against those that continue to make judgments based on things they saw him do years ago and not the more mature player he is now ( Nonu syndrome).
However even I can see how the smarter teams will spot him or try to put him into a position where they can run a big man at him front on.
In part it is his terrier like attitude that gets him into these positions, like defending two out from a ruck near the line rather than getting others to fill the gap.
Tenacious defender but there are times when size outranks will.
As for that England game didn’t Eddie design that set piece try that pulled him one way then immediately switched so that he was sweeping from too far away as his tackle was too little too late?@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
As for that England game didn’t Eddie design that set piece try that pulled him one way then immediately switched so that he was sweeping from too far away as his tackle was too little too late?
Not sure his being out of position (or other players not covering the gap) has to do with his lack of size.
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So the shot handed out to DMac for the Augsburger try ... does Sammie W get the same treatment?
https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1452535574393499648?t=G4lWlAAd7lD9EYc1Km2ZYQ&s=19
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So the shot handed out to DMac for the Augsburger try ... does Sammie W get the same treatment?
https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1452535574393499648?t=G4lWlAAd7lD9EYc1Km2ZYQ&s=19
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So the shot handed out to DMac for the Augsburger try ... does Sammie W get the same treatment?
https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1452535574393499648?t=G4lWlAAd7lD9EYc1Km2ZYQ&s=19
@booboo said in All Blacks vs USA:
So the shot handed out to DMac for the Augsburger try ... does Sammie W get the same treatment?
https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1452535574393499648?t=G4lWlAAd7lD9EYc1Km2ZYQ&s=19
Which one was blocked and which one was stepped?
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Watching that replay RM should have done better as well.
Funny to watch it like that where you can keep pausing. I thought at the time it was all due to the comedy going on near the ruck that normal defence pattern were disrupted. However it was clearly a defensive stuff up from the ABs leaving a huge hole.
The lock saw no one was guarding close and ran a line which the halfback wasn't expecting. Luckily for them the halfback was bounced into the hole which still hadn't been covered. Whitelock was a touch too late coming across for it to be a 'block'.
To add to the funny picture Gardiner had got between the ruck and the backline and had to hit the deck to keep out of the way. -
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
@junior Watching clips of TJP in training he has good passing technique. But it seems in the heat of a match his radar goes awry and the ball can spray anywhere!
Perhaps he’s trying too hard to get ball away briskly. A moment’s pause to fix his bearings might improve his accuracy. That half a second delay is better for 10 than having to catch the ball above his head. Ask DMac!
