Ardie Savea

Canes4life

Also the selectors seem to pick players who are versatile. Savea can probably play every loose forward position and if worst comes to worst he wouldn't look out of place in the back line.
 
You could say that Savea adds so much more on attack than Todd while doing the same as Todd on defense.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="579558" data-time="1463137284">
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If I had to nail something where I rate Cane a long way ahead - and that is probably the defining characteristic of a test match 7, it'd be the decision making of when to over invest in a ruck. If you watch Pocock, Richie, George Smith etc. In tests they are annoying in almost all rucks but they only really invest themselves 100% for a split second then decide "nope I can't get that" and they back off so as to be available to hit the next one. And then 4 or 5 times a game they are 100% in & they get a steal & its vital. But the key is there are only 4 or 5 oportunities a game (in tests) to do that. And they pick them & are available to do it. Its like watching a vulture patiently waiting for that exact moment when the baby gazelle is just far enough away from its mum. 
 
For me thats the art of a test match 7. I watch Ardie & he treats every ruck the same - which most forwards do & he often "dies" in a ruck he had zero chance of stealing. 
 
Link work is less important for the ABs than it is for the northern sides as our whole team can link. Retallick or Franks link more than McCaw ever did. For an English 7 its vital as the other 7 forwards can't catch & pass for shit.
 
I completely agree he'll be a superstar off the bench, but even if Cane gets injured I think he'll struggle to lock Todd out of the starting spot. Same way Vito has. And Masoe before him. And Barrett in the backs.
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According to FoxSports Super Coach, Savea has 6 pilfers and 3 turnovers forced this season. Todd has 0 pilfers and 2 turnovers forced. Cane has only 3 turnovers forced. Todd has conceded 4 penalties, Savea has conceded 9 and Cane 14. If Savea is bad at choosing when to commit to a ruck then it is somewhat curious that he does not concede a lot of penalties and wins a lot of turnovers. Stats aren't everything but here they seem to point in the exact opposite direction to what you are saying. The real interesting question would be a 'ruck arrivals' stat - is Savea over-committing and then failing to get to the next ruck? The fact that Savea has made the 3rd most tackles in the competition would seem to suggest otherwise. If Savea is over-committing then he must be impressively quick to get up and make so many more (as many in the case of Cane) tackles then players who aren't committing.
 
I'll watch what you are saying but I can't see that I have ever noticed it as a flaw in Savea's game.

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="579560" data-time="1463137454">
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What did you mean then? Mentally? Savea has been in the frame aswell. They took him on the end of year tour when he was 20. Obviously they see him in their environment and he has more than proved he is mature enough for test footy ever since. I guess all will be revealed shortly and we can debate further when the time comes. 
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Todd has 3 caps (two in 2013, one in 2015 v Samoa). Savea has been an apprentice without game time in 2014 & might have been in NZ Barbarians squad last year if he hadn't been injured.
 
Some people on the Fern clearly have the inability to distinguish between "I would pick" and "Hansen and co. will pick". I clearly indicated that it would be MY preference to select Todd as Cane's back-up this June because I think he's more reliable to replace Cane in case Cane gets injured; I didn't say anywhere who I think Hansen will pick. He may pick Savea, or he may pick Todd; or he may pick both. I'm not a mind-reader and am not interested in guessing who they will pick. I just await the announcement for that.

Canes4life

Fair enough Stargazer. Though the stats show Savea is all over Todd and Todd has the luxury of having a All Black tight five in front of him. 
 
If you put Ardie in a pack like the Crusaders he would flourish big time, which is where he has the upper hand over Todd. 
 
He just offers so much more all around.
 
Anyway I respect your backing of Todd and i'm sure whoever puts on that Black jersey in June will do wonders in a dominant All Blacks side.

ACT Crusader

It's going to be a tight race for the 2016 TSF Knight in shining armour award....

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="579560" data-time="1463137454">What did you mean then? Mentally? Savea has been in the frame aswell. They took him on the end of year tour when he was 20. Obviously they see him in their environment and he has more than proved he is mature enough for test footy ever since. I guess all will be revealed shortly and we can debate further when the time comes. </blockquote>
 
My guess about the maturity comment might be based on what transpired in South Africa last week?

Canes4life

I don't think being 18 minutes late is going to ruin the stellar year he's had.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="579569" data-time="1463138501">
According to FoxSports Super Coach, Savea has 6 pilfers and 3 turnovers forced this season. Todd has 0 pilfers and 2 turnovers forced. Cane has only 3 turnovers forced. Todd has conceded 4 penalties, Savea has conceded 9 and Cane 14. If Savea is bad at choosing when to commit to a ruck then it is somewhat curious that he does not concede a lot of penalties and wins a lot of turnovers. Stats aren't everything but here they seem to point in the exact opposite direction to what you are saying. The real interesting question would be a 'ruck arrivals' stat - is Savea over-committing and then failing to get to the next ruck? The fact that Savea has made the 3rd most tackles in the competition would seem to suggest otherwise. If Savea is over-committing then he must be impressively quick to get up and make so many more (as many in the case of Cane) tackles then players who aren't committing. 
I'll watch what you are saying but I can't see that I have ever noticed it as a flaw in Savea's game.</blockquote>
 
I'm not sure how they class a turnover, but Todd has had consiferably more turnovers than that, I remember 4 in the Reds game alone. 
Am I misreading something? Honest question

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="579616" data-time="1463174033">
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I'm not sure how they class a turnover, but Todd has had consiferably more turnovers than that, I remember 4 in the Reds game alone. 
Am I misreading something? Honest question
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No clue. Presumably if the measurement system shows Todd has less turnovers won then that would also be true for Savea and Cane.

Toddy

These are the Vodacom stats for the 3 in competition for the openside spot. 
 
Fu*ken table didn't work.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Toddy" data-cid="579622" data-time="1463175410">
These are the Vodacom stats for the 3 in competition for the openside spot. 
Fu*ken table didn't work.</blockquote>
 
Those turnover stats are much more believable.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="579620" data-time="1463175214">
No clue. Presumably if the measurement system shows Todd has less turnovers won then that would also be true for Savea and Cane.</blockquote>
 
Or it could be completely inaccurate either way.

Higgins

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="579606" data-time="1463168947">
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I don't think being 18 minutes late is going to ruin the stellar year he's had.it might
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It might if he turns up 18 minutes late for kickoff!

Stargazer

SANZAAR stats below, but these don't include turnovers won:

No Quarter

Those stats back up how fucking good Savea will be coming off the bench in the final 20 of a test.

Toddy

The Vodacom stats have turnovers as
 
Cane 6
Todd 12
Savea 16

broughie

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="579524" data-time="1463133562">
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I'm a Canes fan so obviously biased but I think he's a potential superstar. He does his core work very well but has that extra dimension that separates him from most 7s. Just hope he doesn't pick up big bros pie eating habits.
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Nope on the food. He was always fighting for scraps at the table. He has a different mindset. Initially I thought he might be a tad small but pound for pound his power and speed is pretty impressive.

broughie

I would take Savea in a heartbeat over Todd for the EOYT. He has so much more upside than Todd and for me is performing better than Todd. So Hansen has the choice of looking towards the future in Savea or the past with Todd. Hell, we dont need experience. We need youth and speed. Todd is like Marty Holah. Reliable but always just caretaking.

Dice

Ardie has 4 try assists! That's 3 more than West. I think we just found our new target for 10 at the Blues.

taniwharugby

Cant really compare players with stats alone, each team uses the player differently and each player has a different role. 
 
People were getting stiffies over Pocock getting so many turnovers and worried about how few Richie was getting, how'd that turn out?
 
Similarly, tackle counts will vary depending on a player and those around him in his team.

The Silver Fern

Ardie Savea