All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour

[stodders]

I'll be interested to see what NZRU do.

The current drop in standards may begin to have a commercial impact on NZ rugby. Sponsors only want to pay top dollar for the best teams. If NZRU feel revenues are at risk, Foster will come even more under the spotlight.

Next year's series against Ireland is now critical. If ABs lose it, he'll be gone. He won't survive it.

[Chris B.]

@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.

The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.

Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.

My sense is that the players are mentally stale. Quite a few games. Being in bubble. Vibe of the set up. Players coming and going.

Trying to rouse themselves (which they did) when running on fumes.

Contrast the Boks who seem pretty focussed and hungry, still.

Difficult season with Covid restrictions but not a good reflection on management.

Yeah - remember when Henry said it's hard to play well in tests for three weeks in a row. These guys have had two sets of five on this tour. Jordie, who was previously excellent, I think probably symptomatic that the gas in the tank is largely burned up.

I'm not really going to bag Foster for his selections, because I don't think he's got too many wrong. This week I think he saw the necessity of hitting the refresh button and most of his changes were relatively good. Coles and Samisoni for Taylor. Cane at 7. Smith at 9. Tupaea at 12. Akira and Bridge went well enough.

Little Richie had a bit of a shocker, especially in the second half where things got progressively worse for him. Poor old Dave Havili - when your luck's not in... I need to have another look, but I suspect the French wing made a 14 point play. We looked to have plenty of firepower to the left if Havili can make a fast transfer.

Sliding doors moment - Jordan's calf muscle - we still had his obligatory try up our sleeves when he hobbled off. Bigger one was the kick-chase that ended in Ardie going to the bin.

On the plus side, we've got Scott Barrett, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Papalií, Jacobson, Sotutu, Fakatava (probably), Beauden, ALB, Goodhue, and Clarke all in the wings to potentially play roles in the top team next year.

Fozzie's not going to get sacked for the fade at the end of a tough tour. I doubt he and his team are the guys to win us a RWC - or give us our best chance - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

[taniwharugby]

Why sub Aaron after 60? You need him there to close the game, so if he can't go 80 then he shouldn't be there, not often in a big game he is subbed so early.

[Chris B.]

@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

The tight 5 are slow and mobile and lack fitness.

How the hell did Sam Cane get the nod???? Plays 1 game for King Country and he is in. Pathetic!

He came off the bench vs USA and played 80 minutes vs Italy. I thought he went pretty well.

[Machpants]

@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.

The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.

Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.

My sense is that the players are mentally stale. Quite a few games. Being in bubble. Vibe of the set up. Players coming and going.

Trying to rouse themselves (which they did) when running on fumes.

Contrast the Boks who seem pretty focussed and hungry, still.

Difficult season with Covid restrictions but not a good reflection on management.

Yeah - remember when Henry said it's hard to play well in tests for three weeks in a row. These guys have had two sets of five on this tour. Jordie, who was previously excellent, I think probably symptomatic that the gas in the tank is largely burned up.

I'm not really going to bag Foster for his selections, because I don't think he's got too many wrong. This week I think he saw the necessity of hitting the refresh button and most of his changes were relatively good. Coles and Samisoni for Taylor. Cane at 7. Smith at 9. Tupaea at 12. Akira and Bridge went well enough.

Little Richie had a bit of a shocker, especially in the second half where things got progressively worse for him. Poor old Dave Havili - when your luck's not in... I need to have another look, but I suspect the French wing made a 14 point play. We looked to have plenty of firepower to the left if Havili can make a fast transfer.

Sliding doors moment - Jordan's calf muscle - we still had his obligatory try up our sleeves when he hobbled off. Bigger one was the kick-chase that ended in Ardie going to the bin.

On the plus side, we've got Scott Barrett, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Papalií, Jacobson, Sotutu, Fakatava (probably), Beauden, ALB, Goodhue, and Clarke all in the wings to potentially play roles in the top team next year.

Fozzie's not going to get sacked for the fade at the end of a tough tour. I doubt he and his team are the guys to win us a RWC - or give us our best chance - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I'm not going to bag foster for his selections either, it's the fact or gamelan had no depth, innovation, improvement, or even change since 2015!

[KiwiMurph]

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

Why sub Aaron after 60? You need him there to close the game, so if he can't go 80 then he shouldn't be there, not often in a big game he is subbed so early.

I felt he was starting to find his rhythm too.

[stodders]

@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.

The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.

Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.

My sense is that the players are mentally stale. Quite a few games. Being in bubble. Vibe of the set up. Players coming and going.

Trying to rouse themselves (which they did) when running on fumes.

Contrast the Boks who seem pretty focussed and hungry, still.

Difficult season with Covid restrictions but not a good reflection on management.

Yeah - remember when Henry said it's hard to play well in tests for three weeks in a row. These guys have had two sets of five on this tour. Jordie, who was previously excellent, I think probably symptomatic that the gas in the tank is largely burned up.

I'm not really going to bag Foster for his selections, because I don't think he's got too many wrong. This week I think he saw the necessity of hitting the refresh button and most of his changes were relatively good. Coles and Samisoni for Taylor. Cane at 7. Smith at 9. Tupaea at 12. Akira and Bridge went well enough.

Little Richie had a bit of a shocker, especially in the second half where things got progressively worse for him. Poor old Dave Havili - when your luck's not in... I need to have another look, but I suspect the French wing made a 14 point play. We looked to have plenty of firepower to the left if Havili can make a fast transfer.

Sliding doors moment - Jordan's calf muscle - we still had his obligatory try up our sleeves when he hobbled off. Bigger one was the kick-chase that ended in Ardie going to the bin.

On the plus side, we've got Scott Barrett, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Papalií, Jacobson, Sotutu, Fakatava (probably), Beauden, ALB, Goodhue, and Clarke all in the wings to potentially play roles in the top team next year.

Fozzie's not going to get sacked for the fade at the end of a tough tour. I doubt he and his team are the guys to win us a RWC - or give us our best chance - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I'm not going to bag foster for his selections either, it's the fact or gamelan had no depth, innovation, improvement, or even change since 2015!

It doesn't feel like the gameplan for this group of players. I saw Eddie Jones say earlier that he changes the England gameplan based on the players he has to work with. That's good coaching.

[kev]

I hope we change our style.

• The forwards need to carry more to provide space for the backs. Starting props provide little. And this is where Akira is so frustrating. Runs in broken play but doesn’t run lines very well. Wants to step and fend.
• We need to kick less. Hate the box kick and waiting for others mistakes, it’s overuse means the coaching / forwards have got lazy with their carrying. The Irish showed us up.
• Our backs are still show ponies and turn the ball over too easy. That’s a mental game - Jordie Barrett had a first half to forget with that kick to the sideline so odd that you have to ask wtf? David Havilii intercept pass - we all saw it coming and he made a bad decision under pressure. Favourite hate is the cross kick when you have a penalty advantage on the line, it’s just such an all or nothing play.

[stodders]

Just saw this cracker from Gordon Darcy prior to the French game on Twitter, referring to Coles' comment about Sexton's yapping:

"Having played NZ a lot in my career, I gotta say Dane Coles comments about Johnny are unsurprising. In my experience NZ players are for the most part patronising on the pitch when they win and good to see they’re continuing to reflect that when they lose"

Expect to see a lot more of this kind of thing as the fear is purged

[Duluth]

[Nepia]

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.

I don't buy this low period talent thing.

Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.

It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.

This is a worse take than how badly the ABs played in the first half.

[stodders]

@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.

I don't buy this low period talent thing.

Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.

It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.

This is a worse take than how badly the AB the ABs played in the first half.

Not at the beginning of his career when first made it to ABs. He was an athlete, but nothing like the powerful blindside he would become. I recall him being dropped from the squad to work in his game, i.e. it wasn't there from day 1. That was the point

[Nepia]

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.

I don't buy this low period talent thing.

Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.

It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.

This is a worse take than how badly the AB the ABs played in the first half.

Not at the beginning of his career when first made it to ABs. He was an athlete, but nothing like the powerful blindside he would become. I recall him being dropped from the squad to work in his game, i.e. it wasn't there from day 1. That was the point

Fair enough, you probably should have specified that you were talking about before he became a regular.

[stodders]

@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.

I don't buy this low period talent thing.

Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.

It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.

This is a worse take than how badly the AB the ABs played in the first half.

Not at the beginning of his career when first made it to ABs. He was an athlete, but nothing like the powerful blindside he would become. I recall him being dropped from the squad to work in his game, i.e. it wasn't there from day 1. That was the point

Fair enough, you probably should have specified that you were talking about before he became a regular.

Fair point. I certainly wasn't referring to peak-Kaino

[BerniesCorner]

This post is deleted!

[nostrildamus]

@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.

I don't buy this low period talent thing.

Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.

It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.

This is a worse take than how badly the AB the ABs played in the first half.

Not at the beginning of his career when first made it to ABs. He was an athlete, but nothing like the powerful blindside he would become. I recall him being dropped from the squad to work in his game, i.e. it wasn't there from day 1. That was the point

Fair enough, you probably should have specified that you were talking about before he became a regular.

Even I got what what Stodders was referring to!

[ploughboy]

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.

The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.

Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.

My sense is that the players are mentally stale. Quite a few games. Being in bubble. Vibe of the set up. Players coming and going.

Trying to rouse themselves (which they did) when running on fumes.

Contrast the Boks who seem pretty focussed and hungry, still.

Difficult season with Covid restrictions but not a good reflection on management.

Yeah - remember when Henry said it's hard to play well in tests for three weeks in a row. These guys have had two sets of five on this tour. Jordie, who was previously excellent, I think probably symptomatic that the gas in the tank is largely burned up.

I'm not really going to bag Foster for his selections, because I don't think he's got too many wrong. This week I think he saw the necessity of hitting the refresh button and most of his changes were relatively good. Coles and Samisoni for Taylor. Cane at 7. Smith at 9. Tupaea at 12. Akira and Bridge went well enough.

Little Richie had a bit of a shocker, especially in the second half where things got progressively worse for him. Poor old Dave Havili - when your luck's not in... I need to have another look, but I suspect the French wing made a 14 point play. We looked to have plenty of firepower to the left if Havili can make a fast transfer.

Sliding doors moment - Jordan's calf muscle - we still had his obligatory try up our sleeves when he hobbled off. Bigger one was the kick-chase that ended in Ardie going to the bin.

On the plus side, we've got Scott Barrett, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Papalií, Jacobson, Sotutu, Fakatava (probably), Beauden, ALB, Goodhue, and Clarke all in the wings to potentially play roles in the top team next year.

Fozzie's not going to get sacked for the fade at the end of a tough tour. I doubt he and his team are the guys to win us a RWC - or give us our best chance - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I'm not going to bag foster for his selections either, it's the fact or gamelan had no depth, innovation, improvement, or even change since 2015!

It doesn't feel like the gameplan for this group of players. I saw Eddie Jones say earlier that he changes the England gameplan based on the players he has to work with. That's good coaching.

you didnt see any different game plans from tests to test from the all blacks?

[nostrildamus]

Why has Samisoni played so few minutes considering everyone loves him, does he have fitness issues?

[Donsteppa]

It's funny watching Stuff and the Herald trying to headline it as a "shock" loss. The last two weeks have been many things, but they've been completely unsurprising...

[stodders]

@ploughboy said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.

The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.

Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.

My sense is that the players are mentally stale. Quite a few games. Being in bubble. Vibe of the set up. Players coming and going.

Trying to rouse themselves (which they did) when running on fumes.

Contrast the Boks who seem pretty focussed and hungry, still.

Difficult season with Covid restrictions but not a good reflection on management.

Yeah - remember when Henry said it's hard to play well in tests for three weeks in a row. These guys have had two sets of five on this tour. Jordie, who was previously excellent, I think probably symptomatic that the gas in the tank is largely burned up.

I'm not really going to bag Foster for his selections, because I don't think he's got too many wrong. This week I think he saw the necessity of hitting the refresh button and most of his changes were relatively good. Coles and Samisoni for Taylor. Cane at 7. Smith at 9. Tupaea at 12. Akira and Bridge went well enough.

Little Richie had a bit of a shocker, especially in the second half where things got progressively worse for him. Poor old Dave Havili - when your luck's not in... I need to have another look, but I suspect the French wing made a 14 point play. We looked to have plenty of firepower to the left if Havili can make a fast transfer.

Sliding doors moment - Jordan's calf muscle - we still had his obligatory try up our sleeves when he hobbled off. Bigger one was the kick-chase that ended in Ardie going to the bin.

On the plus side, we've got Scott Barrett, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Papalií, Jacobson, Sotutu, Fakatava (probably), Beauden, ALB, Goodhue, and Clarke all in the wings to potentially play roles in the top team next year.

Fozzie's not going to get sacked for the fade at the end of a tough tour. I doubt he and his team are the guys to win us a RWC - or give us our best chance - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I'm not going to bag foster for his selections either, it's the fact or gamelan had no depth, innovation, improvement, or even change since 2015!

It doesn't feel like the gameplan for this group of players. I saw Eddie Jones say earlier that he changes the England gameplan based on the players he has to work with. That's good coaching.

you didnt see any different game plans from tests to test from the all blacks?

I saw something different at beginning of 2nd half against France.

I saw consistently poor tactical kicking and aerial bombs, poor ball retention and cleanouts. Aaron Smith's pass is a thing of beauty, but even that struggled to fire a backline that looks v disjointed (albeit one that showed signs of promise in 2nd half).

Scrum ok. Lineout ok. No real strike moves off either that are manipulating defences and creating opportunities. Something I've always expected from AB sides.