All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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Fantastic match
Best of the Autumn
@mikethesnow said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fantastic match
Best of the Autumn
Agree, even as a losing supporter I loved the whole bloody test!
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..
If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.
Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.
I think a full strength Australia side is a good bit better than when we played them.
Do you think NZ would win most of their tests at home? What we're seeing is NZ losing away matches. Losing away is quite common for most other teams, especially in front of large, vocal support.
Honestly, winning 85%+ over last 16/17 years has skewed things. Winning away used to be a great feat. Maybe you'll begin to treasure them again
Until recently Ireland had never beaten us. Last week they gave us a hiding.
France snapped a 19? game losing streak, to give us another hiding.
And I'm not going to apologize for saying things are totally shit in the AB camp when we lose to a pretty mediocre Argentina.
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..
If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.
Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.
I think a full strength Australia side is a good bit better than when we played them.
Do you think NZ would win most of their tests at home? What we're seeing is NZ losing away matches. Losing away is quite common for most other teams, especially in front of large, vocal support.
Honestly, winning 85%+ over last 16/17 years has skewed things. Winning away used to be a great feat. Maybe you'll begin to treasure them again
Until recently Ireland had never beaten us. Last week they gave us a hiding.
France snapped a 19? game losing streak, to give us another hiding.
And I'm not going to apologize for saying things are totally shit in the AB camp when we lose to a pretty mediocre Argentina.
That can’t be right. We lost back to back tests against France, albeit one was in 2007 (QF) and the next test was in 2009.
I haven’t looked it up but I doubt we have played them 19 times since the Dunners loss in 2009.
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..
If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.
Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.
I think a full strength Australia side is a good bit better than when we played them.
Do you think NZ would win most of their tests at home? What we're seeing is NZ losing away matches. Losing away is quite common for most other teams, especially in front of large, vocal support.
Honestly, winning 85%+ over last 16/17 years has skewed things. Winning away used to be a great feat. Maybe you'll begin to treasure them again
Until recently Ireland had never beaten us. Last week they gave us a hiding.
France snapped a 19? game losing streak, to give us another hiding.
And I'm not going to apologize for saying things are totally shit in the AB camp when we lose to a pretty mediocre Argentina.
That can’t be right. We lost back to back tests against France, albeit one was in 2007 (QF) and the next test was in 2009.
I haven’t looked it up but I doubt we have played them 19 times since the Dunners loss in 2009.
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@tim 19 just sounded too high for a 12 year period against France.
There’s been some very close and exciting tests in amongst those 14.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
Jokes aside that was appalling refereeing, such a blatent accidental offside that directly led to the line break.
Edit - I say accidental as I think it should have been a scrum, but in fairness it was probably done on purpose.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
Jokes aside that was appalling refereeing, such a blatent accidental offside that directly led to the line break.
Edit - I say accidental as I think it should have been a scrum, but in fairness it was probably done on purpose.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
Jokes aside that was appalling refereeing, such a blatent accidental offside that directly led to the line break.
I absolutely agree.
Lots of this going on, but ultimately if the ref doesn't police it, you'er dumb if you don't do it.
What shits me (dead horse gif) is the incredible inconsistency within games and week to week.
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here's hoping super rugby with Gatland back at the Chiefs, Schmidt at the Blues, Tony Brown doing Tony Browns thing, Razor doing Razor, they have been able to see the glaring issues with our national side and realise it goes down to thier level too and they will look to change things up.
High hopes for the Blues with Schmidt on board, and with Gatland being fulltime hands on, hopefully he will put something back there too.
There is hope, but it relies on things working at super and Foster being able to take things from there next year and build things quickly for 2023....:folded_hands:
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here's hoping super rugby with Gatland back at the Chiefs, Schmidt at the Blues, Tony Brown doing Tony Browns thing, Razor doing Razor, they have been able to see the glaring issues with our national side and realise it goes down to thier level too and they will look to change things up.
High hopes for the Blues with Schmidt on board, and with Gatland being fulltime hands on, hopefully he will put something back there too.
There is hope, but it relies on things working at super and Foster being able to take things from there next year and build things quickly for 2023....:folded_hands:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
here's hoping super rugby with Gatland back at the Chiefs, Schmidt at the Blues, Tony Brown doing Tony Browns thing, Razor doing Razor, they have been able to see the glaring issues with our national side and realise it goes down to thier level too and they will look to change things up.
High hopes for the Blues with Schmidt on board, and with Gatland being fulltime hands on, hopefully he will put something back there too.
There is hope, but it relies on things working at super and Foster being able to take things from there next year and build things quickly for 2023....:folded_hands:
So the canes are fucked, with the current coaching group?
Seems about right
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We’ll shit, there was some awesome rugby played from both teams…but that hurt
Two big things for me, that counter attack from their own goal, we were very much in the ascendancy but that changed everything, we went down a man and 3 points and they got their tales up for the final 20mins
And richie/Jordie/smith have no faith in each other, so many times we’d go one way from the break down and Richie or Jordie would step straight back behind the breakdown….there was one early in the second half when hot on attack, smith goes left/blind….Richie just runs back right behind the breakdown and passes to QT…who steps back left…the French forwards have very much come through by then and we loose it….take the fucking hit Richie!
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here's hoping super rugby with Gatland back at the Chiefs, Schmidt at the Blues, Tony Brown doing Tony Browns thing, Razor doing Razor, they have been able to see the glaring issues with our national side and realise it goes down to thier level too and they will look to change things up.
High hopes for the Blues with Schmidt on board, and with Gatland being fulltime hands on, hopefully he will put something back there too.
There is hope, but it relies on things working at super and Foster being able to take things from there next year and build things quickly for 2023....:folded_hands:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
here's hoping super rugby with Gatland back at the Chiefs, Schmidt at the Blues, Tony Brown doing Tony Browns thing, Razor doing Razor, they have been able to see the glaring issues with our national side and realise it goes down to thier level too and they will look to change things up.
High hopes for the Blues with Schmidt on board, and with Gatland being fulltime hands on, hopefully he will put something back there too.
There is hope, but it relies on things working at super and Foster being able to take things from there next year and build things quickly for 2023....:folded_hands:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp) but they have seemed to have gone backwards for many players at the next level
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"I think with the Irish and the South African boys, we were definitely not where we needed to be. But it just seemed like the speed of the game today – that first 20 they just broke us on the outsides – and I suppose the physicality around our defensive lineout stuff wasn't where it needed to be either. I definitely put it down to physicality in the first two tests, tonight was just... I can't get my head around it at the moment.
This indicates to me that the coaches and leadership group aren't up to date on the current state of the game. Not good.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
here's hoping super rugby with Gatland back at the Chiefs, Schmidt at the Blues, Tony Brown doing Tony Browns thing, Razor doing Razor, they have been able to see the glaring issues with our national side and realise it goes down to thier level too and they will look to change things up.
High hopes for the Blues with Schmidt on board, and with Gatland being fulltime hands on, hopefully he will put something back there too.
There is hope, but it relies on things working at super and Foster being able to take things from there next year and build things quickly for 2023....:folded_hands:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp) but they have seemed to have gone backwards for many players at the next level
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp)
Built nicely by what measure? By playing themselves who all play nearly the same style?
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@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp)
Built nicely by what measure? By playing themselves who all play nearly the same style?
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp)
Built nicely by what measure? By playing themselves who all play nearly the same style?
That’s why I said ‘seemed to have built’.
The Super comp has been successful in building a false sense of well being
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"I think with the Irish and the South African boys, we were definitely not where we needed to be. But it just seemed like the speed of the game today – that first 20 they just broke us on the outsides – and I suppose the physicality around our defensive lineout stuff wasn't where it needed to be either. I definitely put it down to physicality in the first two tests, tonight was just... I can't get my head around it at the moment.
This indicates to me that the coaches and leadership group aren't up to date on the current state of the game. Not good.
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
"I think with the Irish and the South African boys, we were definitely not where we needed to be. But it just seemed like the speed of the game today – that first 20 they just broke us on the outsides – and I suppose the physicality around our defensive lineout stuff wasn't where it needed to be either. I definitely put it down to physicality in the first two tests, tonight was just... I can't get my head around it at the moment.
This indicates to me that the coaches and leadership group aren't up to date on the current state of the game. Not good.
At east Coles is admitting the problem, unlike Foster, Plumtree, and also Moody after Ireland
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@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
"I think with the Irish and the South African boys, we were definitely not where we needed to be. But it just seemed like the speed of the game today – that first 20 they just broke us on the outsides – and I suppose the physicality around our defensive lineout stuff wasn't where it needed to be either. I definitely put it down to physicality in the first two tests, tonight was just... I can't get my head around it at the moment.
This indicates to me that the coaches and leadership group aren't up to date on the current state of the game. Not good.
At east Coles is admitting the problem, unlike Foster, Plumtree, and also Moody after Ireland
@machpants simple the props are unemployed at the breakdown and the tight 5 lacks mobility. We are not dominant at the breakdown at all.
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In my opinion some coaches are’nt destined to be successful but there are times several red flags that will stand out to wether things will go south .
1.Individual coaching record , i think we can all agree that was a concern from the time he was appointed to the assistant role to Hansen and part of that process segways nicely into my 2nd issue2.Because Foster was part of the previous regime , what part of a previously failed game plan would he bring to this current All Black team that would be so different than his predecessor ..?
The same voice is always an issue in my book , you would have to have a special mind to stimulate the same players , previously we had also seen errors in terms of individuals being played out of position ..and even more alarmingly anybody who knew a bit about Rugby could see the All Blacks were being pressured at breakdown which lead to ill discipline which meant the opposition have know worked out , hey if we hold the ball and create our own pressure it will be the All Blacks that fold .- Another area i always look to see what good coaches are up to is in and around development , who has Foster developed into a world class player …?.
Papalii and Blackadder come to mind , but they have really only got their opportunties because of injury .
Do us all a favour Foster and admit , you aint got the midas touch and move on
@steven-harris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
who has Foster developed into a world class player …?.
Papalii and Blackadder come to mind , but they have really only got their opportunties because of injury .Samisoni to me would be the only player that might fit this category - Jordan potentially the other.
Papalii may get there in time but he needs more exposure to physical sides like Boks, England & France.
Blackadder has a high work rate but not enough impact to be world class. The problems at 6 remain.
- Another area i always look to see what good coaches are up to is in and around development , who has Foster developed into a world class player …?.
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@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
"I think with the Irish and the South African boys, we were definitely not where we needed to be. But it just seemed like the speed of the game today – that first 20 they just broke us on the outsides – and I suppose the physicality around our defensive lineout stuff wasn't where it needed to be either. I definitely put it down to physicality in the first two tests, tonight was just... I can't get my head around it at the moment.
This indicates to me that the coaches and leadership group aren't up to date on the current state of the game. Not good.
At east Coles is admitting the problem, unlike Foster, Plumtree, and also Moody after Ireland
@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
"I think with the Irish and the South African boys, we were definitely not where we needed to be. But it just seemed like the speed of the game today – that first 20 they just broke us on the outsides – and I suppose the physicality around our defensive lineout stuff wasn't where it needed to be either. I definitely put it down to physicality in the first two tests, tonight was just... I can't get my head around it at the moment.
This indicates to me that the coaches and leadership group aren't up to date on the current state of the game. Not good.
At east Coles is admitting the problem, unlike Foster, Plumtree, and also Moody after Ireland
Which is ironic because he was one of the few who fronted up against France
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@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
@majorrage said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
That was in many ways a perfect example of what's currently wrong with the team. We did something really good, which put the opposition right under the kosh, but the followed this up with an over eager kick chase, two soft attempts to tackle, no cover for French breakout and then an unnecessary penalty resulting in a YC.
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@majorrage said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
That was in many ways a perfect example of what's currently wrong with the team. We did something really good, which put the opposition right under the kosh, but the followed this up with an over eager kick chase, two soft attempts to tackle, no cover for French breakout and then an unnecessary penalty resulting in a YC.
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
That was in many ways a perfect example of what's currently wrong with the team. We did something really good, which put the opposition right under the kosh, but the followed this up with an over eager kick chase, two soft attempts to tackle, no cover for French breakout and then an unnecessary penalty resulting in a YC.
So was that lack of quality or lack of coaching? I think we have examples of both at the moment but the players just didn't execute in that example
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@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
That was in many ways a perfect example of what's currently wrong with the team. We did something really good, which put the opposition right under the kosh, but the followed this up with an over eager kick chase, two soft attempts to tackle, no cover for French breakout and then an unnecessary penalty resulting in a YC.
So was that lack of quality or lack of coaching? I think we have examples of both at the moment but the players just didn't execute in that example
@canefan knock on effect.
Poor systems, lack of trust in the systems and then one another, putting themselves under pressure and folding.
Foster didnt sound like he believed himself when he said the group had grown and developed (or whatever he said)
