Lazy Runners, Obstruction
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@chimoaus said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@nzzp well it worked perfectly for the French so clearly their coaching staff are playing to the rules and doing everything they can to exploit defences. Guess the onus is on us to do it better.
ah, the Crusaders were experts at this more than a decade ago.
It's not a case of "this is something we don't do, we should do it" we have, and do, do it
It's a case that our attacking formation doesn't lend itself to this play because we play flat as fuck.
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@mariner4life we dont do it well enough thou as that would help counter the rush defense, if you can legitimately cause some confusion as to where the ball is going we might not get swamped with two tacklers and a jackal
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@kiwiwomble said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@mariner4life we dont do it well enough thou as that would help counter the rush defense, if you can legitimately cause some confusion as to where the ball is going we might not get swamped with two tacklers and a jackal
players in motion? What a novel idea.
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@mariner4life said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@kiwiwomble said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@mariner4life we dont do it well enough thou as that would help counter the rush defense, if you can legitimately cause some confusion as to where the ball is going we might not get swamped with two tacklers and a jackal
players in motion? What a novel idea.
This is probably what I noticed the most in the Irish and French games, they seem to play to a set structure, with everyone knowing the plays and their roles.
We are experts at playing what is in front of us and using our talent and skill to exploit that. The problem is when teams stick to their structure and employ good D we look clueless as our structures just aren't up to it. We seem to run out of ideas very quickly and put up the 50/50 bombs.
We almost need to move away from the counter attacking sevens style and move towards the very structured play of the NH teams. Once you get territory and build pressure then those skills become valuable.
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@mariner4life said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
ah, the Crusaders were experts at this more than a decade ago.
Or going back a little further, remember Woodward criticising Eddie Jones for this? In that instance I agreed with Woodward. However it's been part of the game for two decades now
On this particular game - I thought the French got their timing wrong on 2-3 occasions. Particularly when a ball carrier cut back. I think they should've been called for accidental offside at least twice.
But the ref missed it.. the refs miss lots of things in a game
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@chimoaus said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@mariner4life said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@kiwiwomble said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@mariner4life we dont do it well enough thou as that would help counter the rush defense, if you can legitimately cause some confusion as to where the ball is going we might not get swamped with two tacklers and a jackal
players in motion? What a novel idea.
This is probably what I noticed the most in the Irish and French games, they seem to play to a set structure, with everyone knowing the plays and their roles.
We are experts at playing what is in front of us and using our talent and skill to exploit that. The problem is when teams stick to their structure and employ good D we look clueless as our structures just aren't up to it. We seem to run out of ideas very quickly and put up the 50/50 bombs.
We almost need to move away from the counter attacking sevens style and move towards the very structured play of the NH teams. Once you get territory and build pressure then those skills become valuable.
i wonder what they actually do in training....we dont have "moves" like other teams...and we dont do a lot of the old school basics (passing and tackling) as has been mentioned
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@nta I'm curious to hear from someone who recently played and how much of this you train for. Does each player have a certain role to obstruct etc? Do you have a role to target specific players? What is the best way to defend against this tactic?
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@chimoaus said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@nta I'm curious to hear from someone who recently played and how much of this you train for. Does each player have a certain role to obstruct etc? Do you have a role to target specific players? What is the best way to defend against this tactic?
we train it at club level, not to obstruct a specific runner but for the passing to happen behind pods so its visually obscured, seed that doubt on where the ball is going, we also train to counter it, defenders running for the space behind the front attacking line as you can assume thats where something is going to happen
so to be clear, not trying to physically obstruct defenders
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@kiwiwomble said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@chimoaus said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@nta I'm curious to hear from someone who recently played and how much of this you train for. Does each player have a certain role to obstruct etc? Do you have a role to target specific players? What is the best way to defend against this tactic?
we train it at club level, not to obstruct a specific runner but for the passing to happen behind pods so its visually obscured, seed that doubt on where the ball is going, we also train to counter it, defenders running for the space behind the front attacking line as you can assume thats where something is going to happen
so to be clear, not trying to physically obstruct defenders
Thanks for that, I guess by the very nature of pods getting in the defensive line it will at times lead to obstructing defenders and perhaps this is what the coaches want.
The skill I assume is in confusing the defender and doing everything you can to "not obstruct" the defender whilst still obstructing them lol.
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@chimoaus yes, to some degree we're just trying to pick up the kind of players that only have eyes for the ball, those that cant anticipate where it going and run into those holes. So the dummy pods dont move, dont drift into the way of defenders, but if a defender only has eyes for the ball and runs into a stationary pod then all good
as i say we also train to defend it,
first defender on the halfback
second defender on the first receiver
third defender runs for the space behind the first receiver looking for a roaming fullback or blindside wing
forth defender goes for the second receiverand so on
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@chimoaus said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@nta I'm curious to hear from someone who recently played and how much of this you train for. Does each player have a certain role to obstruct etc? Do you have a role to target specific players? What is the best way to defend against this tactic?
I'm a prop. We don't worry about such nonsense
At our level it is mainly decoy runners well off the ball. The precision is different, but you get one player to come in at an angle to hold the defence, releasing it behind them to go wide per @Kiwiwomble 's post.
Setting up pods is a lot harder as a rule, because the chances of getting called for it are higher (more bodies = different picture for the ref), and if you turn it over you've got less resources to recover.
Additionally, a lot of our guys are league-trained so single decoy running is what they do best.
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@nta said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
Make it a black and white picture and assume the jerseys belong to anyone.
Been in the playbook of basically everyone since Brumbieleague.
Next.
Still shits me.
As someone pointed out above (@Crucial ?) it should be illegal to advance into the defensive line if you are in front of the ball
Difficult to write the law as i have no issue with forwards running a line to an anticipated breakdown (or up the fat man's track ... have no idea if that's still a thing ... )
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@booboo said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@nta said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
Make it a black and white picture and assume the jerseys belong to anyone.
Been in the playbook of basically everyone since Brumbieleague.
Next.
Still shits me.
As someone pointed out above (@Crucial ?) it should be illegal to advance into the defensive line if you are in front of the ball
Difficult to write the law as i have no issue with forwards running a line to an anticipated breakdown (or up the fat man's track ... have no idea if that's still a thing ... )
Don't league know how to rule against this?
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@kiwiwomble said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
@chimoaus yes, to some degree we're just trying to pick up the kind of players that only have eyes for the ball, those that cant anticipate where it going and run into those holes. So the dummy pods dont move, dont drift into the way of defenders, but if a defender only has eyes for the ball and runs into a stationary pod then all good
as i say we also train to defend it,
first defender on the halfback
second defender on the first receiver
third defender runs for the space behind the first receiver looking for a roaming fullback or blindside wing
forth defender goes for the second receiverand so on
That shits me
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@booboo it would be a slippery Slope to rule against, never be able to pass to a player deeper than the main backline etc
I have no issue as long as the forward line aren’t actually trying to block defenders and they still need to be a viable pass, so behind the ball carrier/halfback
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Have only just come across this thread, but noticed a number of instances in last two AB games. Based on the way Ronan O'Gara was commenting, I strongly suspect the NH refs call it differently to SH. Hence comment that ABs were still manwatching, as if NH stopped doing that some time ago.
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@pakman said in Lazy Runners, Obstruction:
Have only just come across this thread, but noticed a number of instances in last two AB games. Based on the way Ronan O'Gara was commenting, I strongly suspect the NH refs call it differently to SH. Hence comment that ABs were still manwatching, as if NH stopped doing that some time ago.
Could be the league defence styles in play there. As league generally doesn't pass the ball around on a single play defenders focus on their mark more and trust others to do their job.
I admit that I would dismiss this in Union as there is more requirement to read the ball movement it may be that it actually works most of the time.
More 'man on man' within a pattern rather than screens. -
@booboo saw your comment in the US politic thread
yes, too be clear, we train for our pods to still be an option, deep enough to pass too, the second line being even deeper. If the pod forms and theyre not marked up against they will call for the ball
agreed drifting up ahead of where they can be passed too is shit, at least off dead ball...us fat guys do need a short cut to the next break down sometimes
