World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@rotated said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
Taking Paul Williams as an example it's not obvious to me why it would be a travesty for him to be ineligible Samoa as a second nation if had already decided to be capped for NZ. Sure there may be a link, but even a parental link is pushing it in many circumstances.
Each circumstance is different quite obviously and although citizenship isn't part of this rule (but is for Olympics), for many places it may well be a travesty that someone can be a citizen (through grandparents) yet not be able to represent that country because they were selected for another some time back.
I don't understand the opposition to this if it creates better teams and therefore better games to watch.
I agree Crucial, although there maybe a few cases where it doesn't settle well, in the long run I think it very positive.
@dan54 said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@rotated said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
Taking Paul Williams as an example it's not obvious to me why it would be a travesty for him to be ineligible Samoa as a second nation if had already decided to be capped for NZ. Sure there may be a link, but even a parental link is pushing it in many circumstances.
Each circumstance is different quite obviously and although citizenship isn't part of this rule (but is for Olympics), for many places it may well be a travesty that someone can be a citizen (through grandparents) yet not be able to represent that country because they were selected for another some time back.
I don't understand the opposition to this if it creates better teams and therefore better games to watch.
I agree Crucial, although there maybe a few cases where it doesn't settle well, in the long run I think it very positive.
If you eliminate the grandparent rule on the second union only you eliminate 95% of the cases that are taking the piss and still keep most of the benefit.
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Fantastic win for PI rugby. It definitely makes PI teams more competitive from next year and RWC 2023 extremely interesting for the likes of Scotland, Italy and potentially Argentina the way their form has been. At a tournament like RWC they may even cause an upset or two of the Top tier nations.
Anyone seen/got a list of potential teams?
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@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity. Probably the same for Celtic diaspora in England.
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So how’s it going to work in the real world?
All the stars mentioned going to be happy playing for completely amateur unions against their clubs wishes?
If it forces the PI top brass to get their shit together can only be good. But pissing off your 7 figure payers to play for the PI unions in their current state simply won’t work.
Dan Leo’s doc was mostly eye opening in the shambolic, corrupt way the countries unions were run. I don’t see how that’s changed here.
@majorrage said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
So how’s it going to work in the real world?
All the stars mentioned going to be happy playing for completely amateur unions against their clubs wishes?
If it forces the PI top brass to get their shit together can only be good. But pissing off your 7 figure payers to play for the PI unions in their current state simply won’t work.
Dan Leo’s doc was mostly eye opening in the shambolic, corrupt way the countries unions were run. I don’t see how that’s changed here.
ThThe PI teams will be stronger at each World Cup, but they will still be complete shit shows in between.
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity. Probably the same for Celtic diaspora in England.
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
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I'd be curious to compare a list of unions that voted against this change with a list of teams in the same pool as Tonga or Samoa at the next world cup
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I, potentially naively, also think we should give these unions credit. they will still prefer some up and comer over some old hat on the verge of retirement. I think 90% of the cases we'll see are either people that have legit only had one or two caps for their first country or they will bring in one or two senior players in key positions
I've seen suggestions like Tonga having
11 Piutau
12 Laumape
13 Fekitoa
14 NMS
15 Folauand Samoa with similar level names, i just cant see it happening, one or two maybe
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@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
To be fair, as soon as Google became a thing, we had a lot less AB trialists turning out at our club...
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@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
Good to see the club jokes haven’t changed in 20 plus years
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@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
Good to see the club jokes haven’t changed in 20 plus years
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
Good to see the club jokes haven’t changed in 20 plus years
I'm not actually joking
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
Good to see the club jokes haven’t changed in 20 plus years
I'm not actually joking
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
Good to see the club jokes haven’t changed in 20 plus years
I'm not actually joking
@junior makes a good point tho:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
To be fair, as soon as Google became a thing, we had a lot less AB trialists turning out at our club...
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.I have a bridge to sell you
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I have a bridge to sell you
Paging Eddie Jones...
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@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
To be fair, as soon as Google became a thing, we had a lot less AB trialists turning out at our club...
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
To be fair, as soon as Google became a thing, we had a lot less AB trialists turning out at our club...
Lol club I was involved with in Brisbane, had a young fella come to play had been a NZ colt he told us, I asked him what Cowboy Shaw was like as a coach, his answer was who? I said Mark Shaw who coached the Colts last year. Anyway he never came back to club.
Mind you even in old days in NZ was known for the odd joker to claim he had a trial, but was in the days when they had 6 trial matches 2 on a wednesday and 1 on the weekend, and some would say hell I got as far as Wednesday trial teams, noone could remember who the hell was in those teams. -
A little background about the Fakatava situation.
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But, anyway.
Fakatava was never going to meet the original 3 year deadline (May 2020) before the 5 year rule came in. WR extended that time as those who were just going to qualify in time - missed it due to covid cancellations in 2020 (the Pierre Schoeman / James Lowe loophole). A morally mariginal decision anyway, IMO. Marginal? No, down right morally bankrupt.
So Fakatava was about to unexpectedly benefit from a WR decision and get his qualification a year earlier than anyone had ever planned for.
When Fakatava set out on this path, he never expected to qualify by this time, unlike others who had their plans disrupted. There is therefore no basis to make an exception for him.
I can understand his players' union boss trying to push his case, that's their job. I hope it is chucked out though.
