NZ tour of India
-
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
I wonder if Test cricket has ever had that many playing at once of that ability ?
Indian Test Cricket has
Bishen Bedi (left armer and captain), Chandresekar (leggie) Prassana and Vengkataravan (spelling?) were around in the late 60's / early 70's - although they rarely played together. Usually one of the offies would be rested
Batting was built Gavaskar Armanath and Viswanath who would set a total. You'd get 10 overs from a couple of medium pacers before these guys would take over in front of 100,000 screaming Indians.
The first tour of India I remember was about 1976. The one where Peter Petherick took NZ's first hat trick. The 3 Indian spinners took over 50 wickets in a 3 test series.
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
I wonder if Test cricket has ever had that many playing at once of that ability ?
Indian Test Cricket has
Bishen Bedi (left armer and captain), Chandresekar (leggie) Prassana and Vengkataravan (spelling?) were around in the late 60's / early 70's - although they rarely played together. Usually one of the offies would be rested
Batting was built Gavaskar Armanath and Viswanath who would set a total. You'd get 10 overs from a couple of medium pacers before these guys would take over in front of 100,000 screaming Indians.
The first tour of India I remember was about 1976. The one where Peter Petherick took NZ's first hat trick. The 3 Indian spinners took over 50 wickets in a 3 test series.
Not sure any of them could bat……( indeed, THREE test 50s between the four of them )
Jadeja and Ashwin both average under 25, utterly exceptional for a spinner of any era ( Warnies average was over 25 as a point of comparison ).
Patel has obviously had a ridiculous start, will be interesting how he maintains it.
-
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
I wonder if Test cricket has ever had that many playing at once of that ability ?
Indian Test Cricket has
Bishen Bedi (left armer and captain), Chandresekar (leggie) Prassana and Vengkataravan (spelling?) were around in the late 60's / early 70's - although they rarely played together. Usually one of the offies would be rested
Batting was built Gavaskar Armanath and Viswanath who would set a total. You'd get 10 overs from a couple of medium pacers before these guys would take over in front of 100,000 screaming Indians.
The first tour of India I remember was about 1976. The one where Peter Petherick took NZ's first hat trick. The 3 Indian spinners took over 50 wickets in a 3 test series.
Not sure any of them could bat……( indeed, THREE test 50s between the four of them )
Jadeja and Ashwin both average under 25, utterly exceptional for a spinner of any era ( Warnies average was over 25 as a point of comparison ).
Patel has obviously had a ridiculous start, will be interesting how he maintains it.
-
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
-
I cannot see us surviving a barrage from spinners of that calibre. I wonder if Test cricket has ever had that many playing at once of that ability ? ( bear in mind they can all bat too ) Shutting up shop and playing safe won’t cut it, they’re too dangerous.
I hope I’m wrong though.
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
I wonder if Test cricket has ever had that many playing at once of that ability ? ( bear in mind they can all bat too )
Saqlain Mushtaq, Mushtaq Ahmed and Danish Kaneria all took 180+ test wickets with their careers overlapping in the early 00s.
-
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
-
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
-
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
-
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
T20 means they can hit! Bunnies at the top level are super rare now, not sure Chris Martin would get a look in these days
-
I would have thought swap Wagner for a spinner next test.
I am not totally convinced that spinner should be Somerville. I would have thought Rachin Ravindra was th emost average of the spinners. Somerville is now making a reasonable fist with the bat also. He also hung around determinedly in the first innings.
I think he shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
-
I would have thought swap Wagner for a spinner next test.
I am not totally convinced that spinner should be Somerville. I would have thought Rachin Ravindra was th emost average of the spinners. Somerville is now making a reasonable fist with the bat also. He also hung around determinedly in the first innings.
I think he shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
I would have thought swap Wagner for a spinner next test.
I am not totally convinced that spinner should be Somerville. I would have thought Rachin Ravindra was th emost average of the spinners. Somerville is now making a reasonable fist with the bat also. He also hung around determinedly in the first innings.
I think he shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton as night watchman. Just saying.
-
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
That was a dreadful review. Appalling.
I only hope that comes to bite them later
-
I would have thought swap Wagner for a spinner next test.
I am not totally convinced that spinner should be Somerville. I would have thought Rachin Ravindra was th emost average of the spinners. Somerville is now making a reasonable fist with the bat also. He also hung around determinedly in the first innings.
I think he shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
I would have thought swap Wagner for a spinner next test.
I am not totally convinced that spinner should be Somerville. I would have thought Rachin Ravindra was th emost average of the spinners. Somerville is now making a reasonable fist with the bat also. He also hung around determinedly in the first innings.
I think he shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Thought he bowled the best as well. I know Ajaz got wickets but Sommerville applied the most pressure.
-
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
I would have thought swap Wagner for a spinner next test.
I am not totally convinced that spinner should be Somerville. I would have thought Rachin Ravindra was th emost average of the spinners. Somerville is now making a reasonable fist with the bat also. He also hung around determinedly in the first innings.
I think he shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton as night watchman. Just saying.
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
e shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton just saying.
Sure but we have the choice of 3 average spinners and our batting isn't great. Aussie had the choice of some very talented bowlers and good batsmen.
Somerville is probably ranked 2 out of 3 in terms of bowling, and he has shown in two innings he can hang around for 50+ balls. He'd be my guy for the second test.
-
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
e shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton just saying.
Sure but we have the choice of 3 average spinners and our batting isn't great. Aussie had the choice of some very talented bowlers and good batsmen.
Somerville is probably ranked 2 out of 3 in terms of bowling, and he has shown in two innings he can hang around for 50+ balls. He'd be my guy for the second test.
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
e shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton just saying.
Sure but we have the choice of 3 average spinners and our batting isn't great. Aussie had the choice of some very talented bowlers and good batsmen.
Somerville is probably ranked 2 out of 3 in terms of bowling, and he has shown in two innings he can hang around for 50+ balls. He'd be my guy for the second test.
Just to clarify - I mean in these particular conditions. Otherwise I think our batting is pretty great.
-
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
I read it as @dogmeat referring to 9, 10, and 11.
-
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
I read it as @dogmeat referring to 9, 10, and 11.
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@donsteppa said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@dogmeat said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 You asked if anyone had had spinners of that calibre before. Batting is a bonus. Their core skill is bowling. Anyway in those days you only expected a handful of runs from your lower order - seven down, all out.
Well no, from a NZ perspective Paddles, Bracewell, L Cairns, Collingwood etc we’re all pretty handy batsmen.
Test batting averages of 27.16 (Paddles normally came in at five down...), 20.42, 16.28, and 14.40 (Collinge) respectively. And they're the ones that stood out
Though there was that record partnership between Collinge and Hastings that stood the test of time and held the record for 40 years or so - 153 runs for the 10th wicket.
Definitely less bunnies nowadays than back in the day, but @dogmeats statement was definitely not accurate. Your numbers 7-9 in most teams in history can generally hold a bat at the very least.
I read it as @dogmeat referring to 9, 10, and 11.
I chose to be offended and outraged. More fun that way.
-
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
e shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton just saying.
Sure but we have the choice of 3 average spinners and our batting isn't great. Aussie had the choice of some very talented bowlers and good batsmen.
Somerville is probably ranked 2 out of 3 in terms of bowling, and he has shown in two innings he can hang around for 50+ balls. He'd be my guy for the second test.
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
e shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton just saying.
Sure but we have the choice of 3 average spinners and our batting isn't great. Aussie had the choice of some very talented bowlers and good batsmen.
Somerville is probably ranked 2 out of 3 in terms of bowling, and he has shown in two innings he can hang around for 50+ balls. He'd be my guy for the second test.
A very tongue in cheek comment. Somerville has impressed me hugely so far.
I’ve always found the idea of a night watchman pretty ridiculous to be honest. You’re a batsman who’s been sitting on your arse for however long, go and bat for a couple of overs for fucks sake. It’s your job.
-
@damo said in NZ tour of India:
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
e shows real grit and I like the cut of his jib.
Jason Gillespie got dropped after a double ton just saying.
Sure but we have the choice of 3 average spinners and our batting isn't great. Aussie had the choice of some very talented bowlers and good batsmen.
Somerville is probably ranked 2 out of 3 in terms of bowling, and he has shown in two innings he can hang around for 50+ balls. He'd be my guy for the second test.
A very tongue in cheek comment. Somerville has impressed me hugely so far.
I’ve always found the idea of a night watchman pretty ridiculous to be honest. You’re a batsman who’s been sitting on your arse for however long, go and bat for a couple of overs for fucks sake. It’s your job.
@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
A very tongue in cheek comment. Somerville has impressed me hugely so far.
I’ve always found the idea of a night watchman pretty ridiculous to be honest. You’re a batsman who’s been sitting on your arse for however long, go and bat for a couple of overs for fucks sake. It’s your job.I don't really agree with your assessment of nightwatchmen. A batsman's most vulnerable period is starting (both at the beginning of an innings, and the next morning). If you can avoid having to start twice then it is optimal strategy.
Who cares what it looks like, or what a batsman's job should be. Just go with the optimal strategy. For me that means using a night watchman.
