Ashes 2021-22
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England mentally weren’t there from the first ball. Anybody remember the first ball?
Nowhere worse to tour when your mentality is as off as this group. Australia exploit that snd look to literally and figuratively destroy you.
This England team is far better than so many of our journeymen team over the years but they have been set back a long long way on this tour.
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
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@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
I've watched enough of them in different formats to know they have some seriously good players.
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport. If you can teach a player to hit a 6, you can teach them to block a ball. IF you can teach them to minimise runs, you can teach them line and length.
It's clear they are going to lose this 5-0, but it's the next Ashes which are now the real test. Otherwise we could be the 90's all over again.
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Burns. 6 ducks in a calendar year for an opener. That, there, is the most pressing problem for England. Openers.
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
Burns. 6 ducks in a calendar year for an opener. That, there, is the most pressing problem for England. Openers.
Can see why you’re a fan of Hameed. Only four in comparison.
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@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
I've watched enough of them in different formats to know they have some seriously good players.
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport. If you can teach a player to hit a 6, you can teach them to block a ball. IF you can teach them to minimise runs, you can teach them line and length.
It's clear they are going to lose this 5-0, but it's the next Ashes which are now the real test. Otherwise we could be the 90's all over again.
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
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Test cricket batting is having a solid technical base to be able to defend, against moving ball. As well as ability to score with low risk, strike rotation - with the field up, rather than a '4 men in the circle' type field.
So you get different types of white-ball specialists failings. A Jason Roy, couldn't stay in long enough v a moving ball, a red ball that can swing for 40 overs, not the painted white ball that dies after 10.
Or the Alex Hales* who could survive on his day, but with a test match field his game was block/bash, no strike rotation- meaning his test match strike rate was low 40s, slower than the nurdlers.
*credit Jarod Kimber podcast for Hales titbit.
I think you could put a Martin Guptill more towards that Hales example, better than a Roy but some of those weaknesses, but with also the problems of Hales example if it was a good day.
Then for an Anglo/ Kiwi sort of complication . You then need to add the almost totally different sport of then batting v test match quality spin on non- roads.
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@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
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@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Warney is surprisingly magnanimous in commentary about the English, he was genuinely praising pretty much all of them at one point or another.
As I mentioned earlier much more so than Tubby, Slats and Heals not too long ago.
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@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
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@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
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@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
Yes they were, although that was partly if their own making, having chosen to play little red ball cricket and rotate the squad that was playing red ball.
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@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
Yes they were, although that was partly if their own making, having chosen to play little red ball cricket and rotate the squad that was playing red ball.
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
Yes they were, although that was partly if their own making, having chosen to play little red ball cricket and rotate the squad that was playing red ball.
We had no warm up games either. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
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@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
I'm pretty much far away from cricket these days, but watched an hour or two of the game and it seemed to me the batsmen just ween't there mentally.
You're spot-on about Root standing tall - what a player - but I think Anderson has been immense as well.
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@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
Yes they were, although that was partly if their own making, having chosen to play little red ball cricket and rotate the squad that was playing red ball.
We had no warm up games either. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
Yes they were, although that was partly if their own making, having chosen to play little red ball cricket and rotate the squad that was playing red ball.
We had no warm up games either. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
And of course nothing in between tests. Therefore someone like Crawley coming in in the third test has no actual cricket for an age.
Edit: Not played anything meaningful since September.
Here you go mate, you’ve not played for months and not at all in Australia, you go in first dig against Cummins, Starc etc at the MCG.
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Aren't England Lions touring concurrently? Shouldn't the non playing members join them for your games?
@booboo said in Ashes 2021-22:
Aren't England Lions touring concurrently? Shouldn't the non playing members join them for your games?
Would make more sense.
