Black Caps vs Proteas 2022
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CdG is still around. His form wasn't great last year, but there was talk late last year that he'd recently had (or been carrying for a while?) an injury. His domestic form this side of Christmas seems to have been handy with the bat.
I'm tempted by the idea of Glenn Philips at #5, though noting some of the previous comments - @Chris-B I think? - about how chanceless his test half century was in Sydney
First time in quite a while that the top order has a few moving parts to discuss... and that they're not the openers...!
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CdG is still around. His form wasn't great last year, but there was talk late last year that he'd recently had (or been carrying for a while?) an injury. His domestic form this side of Christmas seems to have been handy with the bat.
I'm tempted by the idea of Glenn Philips at #5, though noting some of the previous comments - @Chris-B I think? - about how chanceless his test half century was in Sydney
First time in quite a while that the top order has a few moving parts to discuss... and that they're not the openers...!
@donsteppa I haven't seen much of Philips, but what I have seen hasn't been particularly convincing - neither that test innings nor his efforts at the T20 WC. So I'd have Mitch Jr. ahead of him for now - and I'm expecting the selectors to agree with me. Bigger question might be Philips or Ravindra?
RR hasn't made an unequivocal start to his test career - batting or bowling. And we could play the four main seamers along with Mitch Jr and Philips as part timers.
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@donsteppa I haven't seen much of Philips, but what I have seen hasn't been particularly convincing - neither that test innings nor his efforts at the T20 WC. So I'd have Mitch Jr. ahead of him for now - and I'm expecting the selectors to agree with me. Bigger question might be Philips or Ravindra?
RR hasn't made an unequivocal start to his test career - batting or bowling. And we could play the four main seamers along with Mitch Jr and Philips as part timers.
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@chris-b Yep, perhaps something like:
- Young
- Latham
- Conway
- Nicholls
- Philips/Mitchell
- Mitchell/Philips
- Blundell
- Jamieson
- Southee
- Wags
- Boult
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Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Bad news for the Black Caps:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300508981/black-caps-captain-kane-williamson-set-to-miss-test-series-against-south-africaI really don't like the idea of Mitchell batting 5, think I would prefer Phillips in that spot.
NZC should definitely consider sending an SOS to Taylor, he won't be in MIQ anymore so no reason he wouldn't be available.
Shit all of a sudden we’re looking really skinny in that middle order. Both KW AND Rossco not being there fills me with worry……
But then again we have proven performers in Latham, Nicholls and Conway…..Young is showing promise………Mitchell might do well as a batting all rounder. Blundell got a score against the Bangies……
We’ll hopefully be alright.
Yeah that's actually looking pretty average now.
Didnt read the article but is it Kane's elbow that is still giving him grief?It is.
The onus is on Conway to see if he’s an ordinary cricketer who has made a fantastic start or if he’s a genuine class player.
The onus is also on Young, Blundell and Nicholls to show if they are legitimate contributors at test level also.
Not sure making CdG and Taylor feel unwanted was wise in hindsight.
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Bad news for the Black Caps:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300508981/black-caps-captain-kane-williamson-set-to-miss-test-series-against-south-africaI really don't like the idea of Mitchell batting 5, think I would prefer Phillips in that spot.
NZC should definitely consider sending an SOS to Taylor, he won't be in MIQ anymore so no reason he wouldn't be available.
Shit all of a sudden we’re looking really skinny in that middle order. Both KW AND Rossco not being there fills me with worry……
But then again we have proven performers in Latham, Nicholls and Conway…..Young is showing promise………Mitchell might do well as a batting all rounder. Blundell got a score against the Bangies……
We’ll hopefully be alright.
Yeah that's actually looking pretty average now.
Didnt read the article but is it Kane's elbow that is still giving him grief?It is.
The onus is on Conway to see if he’s an ordinary cricketer who has made a fantastic start or if he’s a genuine class player.
The onus is also on Young, Blundell and Nicholls to show if they are legitimate contributors at test level also.
Not sure making CdG and Taylor feel unwanted was wise in hindsight.
Huh ? Taylor is about THE most universally loved Black Cap I can remember. People didn’t “not want him” it was more a case of us all being upset his form appeared to have deserted him.
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@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
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@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
Im going to say SA are favourites, NZ of last year definitely even money, NZ who barely scraped to level a home series against Bangladesh are not the same.
Love his contribution over many years but thankfully the Taylor farewell tour is done, I actually think that was also a distraction for the team in the end. He didnt even look near his former self with the bat, even if his bowling was better!
NZ need to pull finger to even be competitive here and that starts with our much heralded bowling unit who were well under par.. We will have issues in batting without Kane or Taylor but if we are not chasing big innings totals we will be right in this. Heres hoping it happens
@bayimports said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
Im going to say SA are favourites, NZ of last year definitely even money, NZ who barely scraped to level a home series against Bangladesh are not the same.
Love his contribution over many years but thankfully the Taylor farewell tour is done, I actually think that was also a distraction for the team in the end. He didnt even look near his former self with the bat, even if his bowling was better!
NZ need to pull finger to even be competitive here and that starts with our much heralded bowling unit who were well under par.. We will have issues in batting without Kane or Taylor but if we are not chasing big innings totals we will be right in this. Heres hoping it happens
If the Bangladesh debacle hadn’t happened I’d still say we were firm favourites at home even without KW and Rossco.
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@bayimports said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
Im going to say SA are favourites, NZ of last year definitely even money, NZ who barely scraped to level a home series against Bangladesh are not the same.
Love his contribution over many years but thankfully the Taylor farewell tour is done, I actually think that was also a distraction for the team in the end. He didnt even look near his former self with the bat, even if his bowling was better!
NZ need to pull finger to even be competitive here and that starts with our much heralded bowling unit who were well under par.. We will have issues in batting without Kane or Taylor but if we are not chasing big innings totals we will be right in this. Heres hoping it happens
If the Bangladesh debacle hadn’t happened I’d still say we were firm favourites at home even without KW and Rossco.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
Im going to say SA are favourites, NZ of last year definitely even money, NZ who barely scraped to level a home series against Bangladesh are not the same.
Love his contribution over many years but thankfully the Taylor farewell tour is done, I actually think that was also a distraction for the team in the end. He didnt even look near his former self with the bat, even if his bowling was better!
NZ need to pull finger to even be competitive here and that starts with our much heralded bowling unit who were well under par.. We will have issues in batting without Kane or Taylor but if we are not chasing big innings totals we will be right in this. Heres hoping it happens
If the Bangladesh debacle hadn’t happened I’d still say we were firm favourites at home even without KW and Rossco.
yeah but it did happen and I dont think it was an anomaly either, behavioural standards drop when Kano isnt there full stop, as a group they improved for the second, but our bowling squad only partially improved on form.. they still need to improve for us to be favourites
EDIT: Also to note they are coming off a 2-1 series win against India at home versus our home series draw versus Bangladesh
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
Im going to say SA are favourites, NZ of last year definitely even money, NZ who barely scraped to level a home series against Bangladesh are not the same.
Love his contribution over many years but thankfully the Taylor farewell tour is done, I actually think that was also a distraction for the team in the end. He didnt even look near his former self with the bat, even if his bowling was better!
NZ need to pull finger to even be competitive here and that starts with our much heralded bowling unit who were well under par.. We will have issues in batting without Kane or Taylor but if we are not chasing big innings totals we will be right in this. Heres hoping it happens
If the Bangladesh debacle hadn’t happened I’d still say we were firm favourites at home even without KW and Rossco.
yeah but it did happen and I dont think it was an anomaly either, behavioural standards drop when Kano isnt there full stop, as a group they improved for the second, but our bowling squad only partially improved on form.. they still need to improve for us to be favourites
EDIT: Also to note they are coming off a 2-1 series win against India at home versus our home series draw versus Bangladesh
@bayimports said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Before the SA-India series I thought that SA would be there for the taking and NZ might finally beat them in a series. SA's batting lineup looked average on paper but they performed in the 2nd and 3rd tests.
Probably a 50/50 now. SA's pace bowlers will enjoy a seaming and bouncy Hagley Oval.
Im going to say SA are favourites, NZ of last year definitely even money, NZ who barely scraped to level a home series against Bangladesh are not the same.
Love his contribution over many years but thankfully the Taylor farewell tour is done, I actually think that was also a distraction for the team in the end. He didnt even look near his former self with the bat, even if his bowling was better!
NZ need to pull finger to even be competitive here and that starts with our much heralded bowling unit who were well under par.. We will have issues in batting without Kane or Taylor but if we are not chasing big innings totals we will be right in this. Heres hoping it happens
If the Bangladesh debacle hadn’t happened I’d still say we were firm favourites at home even without KW and Rossco.
yeah but it did happen and I dont think it was an anomaly either, behavioural standards drop when Kano isnt there full stop, as a group they improved for the second, but our bowling squad only partially improved on form.. they still need to improve for us to be favourites
Yep and that’s a pretty fair call. Massive couple of tests coming up for the boys, can’t wait !
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
Not automatic - but, it's sort of sensible to provide your best batsman with a bit more protection from an early wicket and a seaming ball. And Conway seems comfortable at 3.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
Not automatic - but, it's sort of sensible to provide your best batsman with a bit more protection from an early wicket and a seaming ball. And Conway seems comfortable at 3.
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
Not automatic - but, it's sort of sensible to provide your best batsman with a bit more protection from an early wicket and a seaming ball. And Conway seems comfortable at 3.
Yeah interesting but not always accurate. There’s so many examples of a teams best batsman batting at three, then again India’s best Sachin Tendulkar ( fuck you bloody, best batsman ever @NTA ) pretty much always batted four from memory ?
I think a teams best batsman is virtually always three OR four……
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
Not automatic - but, it's sort of sensible to provide your best batsman with a bit more protection from an early wicket and a seaming ball. And Conway seems comfortable at 3.
Yeah interesting but not always accurate. There’s so many examples of a teams best batsman batting at three, then again India’s best Sachin Tendulkar ( fuck you bloody, best batsman ever @NTA ) pretty much always batted four from memory ?
I think a teams best batsman is virtually always three OR four……
@mn5 depends how you define "best" - the thing about first drop is they need to be both an opener and a swashbuckler, depending how the first 2 guys performed.
That's my criteria anyway. These days you don't get many stick-in-the-mud openers so 4 would need to be as good as 3.
Sachin best batter bowler fielder keeper manager coach in history FYB!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
Not automatic - but, it's sort of sensible to provide your best batsman with a bit more protection from an early wicket and a seaming ball. And Conway seems comfortable at 3.
Yeah interesting but not always accurate. There’s so many examples of a teams best batsman batting at three, then again India’s best Sachin Tendulkar ( fuck you bloody, best batsman ever @NTA ) pretty much always batted four from memory ?
I think a teams best batsman is virtually always three OR four……
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
I think a teams best batsman is virtually always three OR four……
Our Geoffrey says, "Ee's not played much attention to cricket 'istory, tha' lad".
I think it depends on who's available to the team. It wouldn't have made sense to shift Kane to 4 when Rossco and Nicholls weren't suited to 3.
Sir Viv is probably a bit of a model - slowly drifting through 3,4,5 and a few experiments elsewhere.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@donsteppa That team looks so much better if Little Kane is at 4!
This looks like the ABs when Danny Boy tore his abductor!
Does Kane automatically drop to four ?
I guess Brian Lara ( remember him, he went ok ) seemed to chop and change between those positions so it’s not unheard of.
Not automatic - but, it's sort of sensible to provide your best batsman with a bit more protection from an early wicket and a seaming ball. And Conway seems comfortable at 3.
@chris-b
Yeah a mate has an argument that Kane is the best of the 'big 4' because he bats at 3, whereas Smith, Root and Kohli all bat 4 so have the benefit of that extra protection (although in Root's case that's debatable). I have a hunch that 3 is where he prefers to bat so won't move, but I don't think it's totally unreasonably for him to move.
My inner pessimist says that Kane at 4 means more 4/2 situations where he has less support to rebuild, whereas at 4/1 he can immediately get in and settle the innings.
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@chris-b
Yeah a mate has an argument that Kane is the best of the 'big 4' because he bats at 3, whereas Smith, Root and Kohli all bat 4 so have the benefit of that extra protection (although in Root's case that's debatable). I have a hunch that 3 is where he prefers to bat so won't move, but I don't think it's totally unreasonably for him to move.
My inner pessimist says that Kane at 4 means more 4/2 situations where he has less support to rebuild, whereas at 4/1 he can immediately get in and settle the innings.
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@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Bad news for the Black Caps:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300508981/black-caps-captain-kane-williamson-set-to-miss-test-series-against-south-africaI really don't like the idea of Mitchell batting 5, think I would prefer Phillips in that spot.
NZC should definitely consider sending an SOS to Taylor, he won't be in MIQ anymore so no reason he wouldn't be available.
Shit all of a sudden we’re looking really skinny in that middle order. Both KW AND Rossco not being there fills me with worry……
But then again we have proven performers in Latham, Nicholls and Conway…..Young is showing promise………Mitchell might do well as a batting all rounder. Blundell got a score against the Bangies……
We’ll hopefully be alright.
Yeah that's actually looking pretty average now.
Didnt read the article but is it Kane's elbow that is still giving him grief?It is.
The onus is on Conway to see if he’s an ordinary cricketer who has made a fantastic start or if he’s a genuine class player.
The onus is also on Young, Blundell and Nicholls to show if they are legitimate contributors at test level also.
Not sure making CdG and Taylor feel unwanted was wise in hindsight.
Huh ? Taylor is about THE most universally loved Black Cap I can remember. People didn’t “not want him” it was more a case of us all being upset his form appeared to have deserted him.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Bad news for the Black Caps:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300508981/black-caps-captain-kane-williamson-set-to-miss-test-series-against-south-africaI really don't like the idea of Mitchell batting 5, think I would prefer Phillips in that spot.
NZC should definitely consider sending an SOS to Taylor, he won't be in MIQ anymore so no reason he wouldn't be available.
Shit all of a sudden we’re looking really skinny in that middle order. Both KW AND Rossco not being there fills me with worry……
But then again we have proven performers in Latham, Nicholls and Conway…..Young is showing promise………Mitchell might do well as a batting all rounder. Blundell got a score against the Bangies……
We’ll hopefully be alright.
Yeah that's actually looking pretty average now.
Didnt read the article but is it Kane's elbow that is still giving him grief?It is.
The onus is on Conway to see if he’s an ordinary cricketer who has made a fantastic start or if he’s a genuine class player.
The onus is also on Young, Blundell and Nicholls to show if they are legitimate contributors at test level also.
Not sure making CdG and Taylor feel unwanted was wise in hindsight.
Huh ? Taylor is about THE most universally loved Black Cap I can remember. People didn’t “not want him” it was more a case of us all being upset his form appeared to have deserted him.
The selectors.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Bad news for the Black Caps:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300508981/black-caps-captain-kane-williamson-set-to-miss-test-series-against-south-africaI really don't like the idea of Mitchell batting 5, think I would prefer Phillips in that spot.
NZC should definitely consider sending an SOS to Taylor, he won't be in MIQ anymore so no reason he wouldn't be available.
Shit all of a sudden we’re looking really skinny in that middle order. Both KW AND Rossco not being there fills me with worry……
But then again we have proven performers in Latham, Nicholls and Conway…..Young is showing promise………Mitchell might do well as a batting all rounder. Blundell got a score against the Bangies……
We’ll hopefully be alright.
Yeah that's actually looking pretty average now.
Didnt read the article but is it Kane's elbow that is still giving him grief?It is.
The onus is on Conway to see if he’s an ordinary cricketer who has made a fantastic start or if he’s a genuine class player.
The onus is also on Young, Blundell and Nicholls to show if they are legitimate contributors at test level also.
Not sure making CdG and Taylor feel unwanted was wise in hindsight.
Huh ? Taylor is about THE most universally loved Black Cap I can remember. People didn’t “not want him” it was more a case of us all being upset his form appeared to have deserted him.
The selectors.
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Bad news for the Black Caps:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300508981/black-caps-captain-kane-williamson-set-to-miss-test-series-against-south-africaI really don't like the idea of Mitchell batting 5, think I would prefer Phillips in that spot.
NZC should definitely consider sending an SOS to Taylor, he won't be in MIQ anymore so no reason he wouldn't be available.
Shit all of a sudden we’re looking really skinny in that middle order. Both KW AND Rossco not being there fills me with worry……
But then again we have proven performers in Latham, Nicholls and Conway…..Young is showing promise………Mitchell might do well as a batting all rounder. Blundell got a score against the Bangies……
We’ll hopefully be alright.
Yeah that's actually looking pretty average now.
Didnt read the article but is it Kane's elbow that is still giving him grief?It is.
The onus is on Conway to see if he’s an ordinary cricketer who has made a fantastic start or if he’s a genuine class player.
The onus is also on Young, Blundell and Nicholls to show if they are legitimate contributors at test level also.
Not sure making CdG and Taylor feel unwanted was wise in hindsight.
Huh ? Taylor is about THE most universally loved Black Cap I can remember. People didn’t “not want him” it was more a case of us all being upset his form appeared to have deserted him.
The selectors.
He retired, he didn’t get dropped
