The Education System
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<p>No idea about how it all works in NZ or Aus but in the UK much has changed over the last 20 years. Previously we had Universities and Polytechnic Colleges. The former regarded as superior to the latter. The latter generally catering for the more creative, liberal and vocation based degrees. Fees were capped at (at last count) £3,000 per year and non re-payable grants were available - more for the less privileged. We now have all classed as Universities and all sorts of degrees available from everywhere. The number of students in higher education has exploded and many degrees are now classed as a "Clit qualification" - every fluffybunny has one. For sure a degree is now almost a pre-requisite but conversely carries no real value (caveat: depending upon the degree taken and in some cases the establishment granting the degree). Fees are now capped at £9,000 per year and there are no grants, only loans. The increase went from £3K to £9K in one year and guess what? Every bloody Uni decided they were worth £9K a year. Think on this; any business that can triple it's turnover in one year without increasing the cost base must think they've died and gone to heaven. It surely has to make them consider the primary driver of what they are doing. The result is that Universities are more about numbers than quality of education. In order to improve the revenue they cram more and more students in on an ever widening number of degree courses. Many courses are not worth a wank. Many do not have the infrastructure to make them viable, but hell. It's £9K pa, per student. An example is Ms Cato no2 who decided she wished to study game design. Her A Level results were not quite good enough to get her into her chosen Uni. No problem. They were good enough to get her in as a music student and then swap to game design after one week. That is not one week of study, that is one week after applying. Is she right for the course? Well that's not the point. £9K pa is the point.</p>
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<p>Ms Cato No1 has just finished her art degree. She has come out of this with a good degree and a debt of over £50K. She doesn't even get to keep the crayons.</p>
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<p>Higher education in the UK is now getting out of reach for anyone but the wealthy but the Unis are all geared up for huge numbers. A lot of the slack is taken up by short term foreign students doing one or two year Mickey Mouse courses, but sooner or later something has to change.</p>
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<p>The alternative is - we're fucked.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="585695" data-time="1465388441">
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<p> Consider this scenario, a young person goes of to university with the intention of becoming an geologist, find out they don't like and decide to become a carpenter. A lot would say that the year at university is wasted. A similar scenario is that off a guy who takes up a building apprenticeship, after a year they decide they want to be an accountant instead. A lot wouldn't say that was a year wasted. I've had this exact conversation with people before who thought that way. I don't get it, they're both working out stuff for what is going to be a long life ahead and they're both learning life lessons.</p>
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<p>The difference of course is that on one scenario you earnt money, and in the other you racked up debt. So they are not equivalent.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="585786" data-time="1465428259">
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<p>The difference of course is that on one scenario you earnt money, and in the other you racked up debt. So they are not equivalent.</p>
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<p>Weird!</p>
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<p>You don't get what the gist of what he was getting at? Do you really need to take it that literally?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="585790" data-time="1465429048">
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<p>Weird!</p>
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<p>You don't get what the gist of what he was getting at? Do you really need to take it that literally?</p>
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<p>He said he had that exact conversation and I was explaining that many people dont see it as a waste of time..,. but as a waste of money.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="585792" data-time="1465429925">
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<p>He said he had that exact conversation and I was explaining that many people dont see it as a waste of time..,. but as a waste of money.</p>
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<p>My WT family down south think that it's both. A waste of time and money. I had that conversation with them at wedding last year and we both had to walk away from it. It came up again on FB, and I was shouted down from the rooftops.</p>
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<p>He drives a digger, she has good experience in admin that she doesn't want to throw away, even though after 5 minutes of speaking to her you can work out that she's very bright.</p>
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<p>It's infuriating.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585796" data-time="1465431031">
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<p>My WT family down south think that it's both. A waste of time and money. I had that conversation with them at wedding last year and we both had to walk away from it. It came up again on FB, and I was shouted down from the rooftops.</p>
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<p>He drives a digger, she has good experience in admin that she doesn't want to throw away, even though after 5 minutes of speaking to her you can work out that she's very bright.</p>
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<p>It's infuriating.</p>
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<p>I was referring to borrowing to study for a year and then dropping out. I see that as a waste.</p>
<p>Although I also see borrowing to do a complete degree in fine arts/drama/gender studies etc as a waste as well.</p>
<p>If you want to 'find yourself' or 'experience life' and are happy to load up a hundred grand debt.... then university is IMO not the best option.</p>
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<p>On a slight tangent.. digger drivers are in huge demand. Easily get 50- 80 an hour.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="585799" data-time="1465432433">
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<p>I was referring to borrowing to study for a year and then dropping out. I see that as a waste.</p>
<p>Although I also see borrowing to do a complete degree in fine arts/drama/gender studies etc as a waste as well.</p>
<p>If you want to 'find yourself' or 'experience life' and are happy to load up a hundred grand debt.... then university is IMO not the best option.</p>
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<p>On a slight tangent.. digger drivers are in huge demand. Easily get 50- 80 an hour.</p>
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<p>I doubt he's earning that, as they continuously rant and rave about inability to buy a house, and are based in Christchurch.</p>
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<p>I see your points, and I guess I was on at something different. She was struggling to find a job, so I suggested to play the long game and upskill herself so could find a job, and a better paying one more easily. It was about then when the tirade started. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585796" data-time="1465431031">
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<p>My WT family down south think that it's both. A waste of time and money. I had that conversation with them at wedding last year and we both had to walk away from it. It came up again on FB, and I was shouted down from the rooftops.</p>
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<p>He drives a digger, she has good experience in admin that she doesn't want to throw away, even though after 5 minutes of speaking to her you can work out that she's very bright.</p>
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<p>It's infuriating.</p>
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<p>I've been trying to let it pass but I no longer can!</p>
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<p>What is WT Family? Wider Training Family?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585802" data-time="1465432966">
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<p>I doubt he's earning that, as they continuously rant and rave about inability to buy a house, and are based in Christchurch.</p>
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<p>I see your points, and I guess I was on at something different. She was struggling to find a job, so I suggested to play the long game and upskill herself so could find a job, and a better paying one more easily. It was about then when the tirade started. </p>
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<p>Yes... that would be infuriating.. the lack of logic would drive me bonkers. I would then have to say something.. and I would get 'that' look form the wife.</p> -
<p>Nepia: I think the many arguments "against" uni's and pro "tradies" were looking to redress the quantity over quality scenario that you too don't like.</p>
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<p>I get uni can teach you broader life skills / how to think, but is your opinion coloured by the fact you did post-grad. My personal problem with my own uni experience was precisely that (at under-grad level) it didn't do this. It became really obvious really quickly that they weren't going to roll out a visiting prof for a couple of weeks without asking you about their work, so targeting what you needed to retain was pretty easy. I found an arts degree pretty much an extension of school only with fewer classes and a pub on site.</p>
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<p>Nick MBA's are usually but not exclusively the domain of the knob-jockey.</p>
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<p>I'm not anti-academia. I'm anti the dumbing down of tertiary institutions at the expense of recognition of other paths. Someone said you basically need a masters to get anywhere these days - that is fucked up nonsense.</p>
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<p>Especially as they have just rolled out the first AI lawyer and have a medical tri-corder than can correctly out-diagnose 7/10 GP's. Beam me up Scotty! </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585808" data-time="1465433667">
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<p>Nepia: I think the many arguments "against" uni's and pro "tradies" were looking to redress the quantity over quality scenario that you too don't like.</p>
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<p>I get uni can teach you broader life skills / how to think, but is your opinion coloured by the fact you did post-grad. My personal problem with my own uni experience was precisely that (at under-grad level) it didn't do this. It became really obvious really quickly that they weren't going to roll out a visiting prof for a couple of weeks without asking you about their work, so targeting what you needed to retain was pretty easy. I found an arts degree pretty much an extension of school only with fewer classes and a pub on site.</p>
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<p><strong>Nick MBA's are usually but not exclusively the domain of the knob-jockey.</strong></p>
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<p>I'm not anti-academia. I'm anti the dumbing down of tertiary institutions at the expense of recognition of other paths. Someone said you basically need a masters to get anywhere these days - that is fucked up nonsense.</p>
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<p>Especially as they have just rolled out the first AI lawyer and have a medical tri-corder than can correctly out-diagnose 7/10 GP's. Beam me up Scotty! </p>
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<p> Liked for this comment. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585808" data-time="1465433667">
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<p>I'm not anti-academia. I'm anti the dumbing down of tertiary institutions at the expense of recognition of other paths. Someone said you basically need a masters to get anywhere these days - that is fucked up nonsense.</p>
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<p>If you want to get into the grad programs in the big financial institutions - it's pretty much so true. You can get into the back office on an undergrad, but you went get near the front desks without.</p>
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<p>You can of course, still work your way up, but that is much harder than it used to be.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585814" data-time="1465434614">
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<p>If you want to get into the grad programs in the big financial institutions - it's pretty much so true. You can get into the back office on an undergrad, but you went get near the front desks without.</p>
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<p>You can of course, still work your way up, but that is much harder than it used to be.</p>
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<p>Our PM would have been fucked then....</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585808" data-time="1465433667">
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<p>Nick MBA's are usually but not exclusively the domain of the knob-jockey.</p>
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<p>Only going on the sample size I've been given ;)</p> -
<p>I listened to a Ted Talk from current <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='
'>US Senator Ben Sasse</a>. He essentially says that most kids learn nothing from College and even though more people are going there, we aren't getting any benefit from it. He doesn't exactly come up with solutions though.</p>
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<p>I don't think I learned very much from university. It got me a decent paying job so that is good but I think I could have learned everything I needed to at university in about 3 months. When I left university, I actually started to read again and enjoy learning. The whole education industry just seems massively inefficient. University wasn't a great time for me for other reasons, so my thoughts are probably somewhat affected by that.</p>
