Final: Blues vs Crusaders
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@chimoaus said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Credit to BOK and the refs, I don't think they changed the outcome and thoight they did well overall.
No cards, either
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@chimoaus said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Credit to BOK and the refs, I don't think they changed the outcome and thoight they did well overall.
No cards, either
Yeah, they were great. Apart from the foul-play reviews, you hardly noticed BOK and the refs.
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Gonna post first read thread second
Jager had an absolute cracker at 3. Best game he has played for the crusaders.
Grace was also very good at 8. A genuine attacking and defensive line out option. Robinson as an AB locking option, don’t think so.
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Mounga had a great game and the midfield were a defensive wall.
Finally, are the Blues props really the best options for the ABs??
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Gonna post first read thread second
Jager had an absolute cracker at 3. Best game he has played for the crusaders.
Grace was also very good at 8. A genuine attacking and defensive line out option. Robinson as an AB locking option, don’t think so.
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Mounga had a great game and the midfield were a defensive wall.
Finally, are the Blues props really the best options for the ABs??
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Pretty much agree, except for this:
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Along with the other loosies, he kept the Blues in it - amazing it was only 16-0 at HT. . Sure, he wasn't rocking it up like Hoskins, but he was doing the hard yakka, engine-room stuff.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Pretty much agree, except for this:
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Along with the other loosies, he kept the Blues in it - amazing it was only 16-0 at HT. . Sure, he wasn't rocking it up like Hoskins, but he was doing the hard yakka, engine-room stuff.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Pretty much agree, except for this:
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Along with the other loosies, he kept the Blues in it - amazing it was only 16-0 at HT. . Sure, he wasn't rocking it up like Hoskins, but he was doing the hard yakka, engine-room stuff.
If you say so. Blues pack was buried in the first half. Not a single blues forward played better than their opponent in the first 40.
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
@kev at what position though? 1st five because I wouldn’t have him at FB. Leave that to Jordie and Jordan if either subbed or moved.
Whole game disappointing as a Blues fan. The Crusaders are smart and play the team game. They don’t make stupid handling errors when they are building momentum. They can think on their feet while the Blues are still trying to figure out how to win a line out. Might have been better to throw to the props in the front or can you roll the ball along the ground? Just thinking outside the box options that would have been better than padding Whitlock's stats. It wouldn’t have be expected and at least there would be a competition. They are not isolated in the carry. And well coached. Robinson should just play 6. Makeshift lock during the regular season but just didn’t cut it. Goodhue lacked big time. Akira’s defense is good but I wish he would run straight but then the support needs to be there to clean out the ruck. Never threw once to him and he has been a handy option in the past.
Oh well. I guess they are improving.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Pretty much agree, except for this:
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Along with the other loosies, he kept the Blues in it - amazing it was only 16-0 at HT. . Sure, he wasn't rocking it up like Hoskins, but he was doing the hard yakka, engine-room stuff.
If you say so. Blues pack was buried in the first half. Not a single blues forward played better than their opponent in the first 40.
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
Yep.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
Yep.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
Yep.
I’m not the biggest Jager fan although I’m coming round but compare his accurate work rate to laulala. As for the blues replacement AB props they were no better and arguably worse than the 2 crusaders rookies. Given that KT is going overseas and that he is all sorts of mediocre it’s the worst AB selection since maybe Atiga in 2003.
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Difference was the Saders had a completely simple and unshakeable gameplan. Tackle. Possession. Tackle. Run, Territory. Tackle. Everyone do their job. Did I mention tackle. Hard to see what the Blues gameplan was.
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
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Has there ever been a worse line out performance from a team than we saw tonight? Blues must have lost 10 line outs at least
@Dolamite said in Blues 2022:
Has there ever been a worse line out performance from a team than we saw tonight? Blues must have lost 10 line outs at least
According to this they were 9/19
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I watched last night with a lot of family here, so will enjoy watching again, to see how good or bad the Blues pack were. I really thought the bath Crudadres gave them in lineout seemed to be start and almost the main cause of their problems, I can't recall such a lesson for quite sometime.
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Yeah I’m not sure who starts between beaudy and Richie . I don’t have a preference tbh .
But I do think we have to be careful thinking all our answers to selections were in that game when the similar issues keep arising at test level with both of them
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@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It couldn't help thinking that the Blues backs might have enjoyed playing behind the Chiefs forwards a week earlier.
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There was a simple fix to the Blues lineout woes, i.e., get Robinson up quickly at the front. That was assuming the lifters were doing their job, often the cause of the problems they were having.
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
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@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
When Ofa came on to replace Laulala you could see Laulala having a frustrated moan about something to him. Whether it had to do with the line out I don’t know but it seemed so.
Communication breakdowns between jumpers and lifters?
I’m no lineout expert but I was surprised that the Blues did little to disrupt the Saders contesting. There were no shuffles and attempts to throw to the unexpected spot. They just kept trying the same 3 or 5 plays and getting picked off. Where was the leadership there? I thought Robinson would have stepped up. -
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisYep, that match told us absolutely nothing about the 10s that we didn't already know. RM is a god at Super level and a magician when he gets an armchair ride from his pack. BB is shit, runs sideways and shovels terrible passes when he doesn't get an armchair ride.
The only potentially relevant outcome of that match so far as the AB 10 is concerned, is that RM may get first dibs at shitting the bed against the Irish (or conversely dominating if the AB pack gets the ascendancy).
@junior said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisYep, that match told us absolutely nothing about the 10s that we didn't already know. RM is a god at Super level and a magician when he gets an armchair ride from his pack. BB is shit, runs sideways and shovels terrible passes when he doesn't get an armchair ride.
The only potentially relevant outcome of that match so far as the AB 10 is concerned, is that RM may get first dibs at shitting the bed against the Irish (or conversely dominating if the AB pack gets the ascendancy).
Totally agree and it is one of our problems at test level when our forwards can’t dominate. We have two brilliantly skilfull 10s that are ineffective when the heat comes on.
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
When Ofa came on to replace Laulala you could see Laulala having a frustrated moan about something to him. Whether it had to do with the line out I don’t know but it seemed so.
Communication breakdowns between jumpers and lifters?
I’m no lineout expert but I was surprised that the Blues did little to disrupt the Saders contesting. There were no shuffles and attempts to throw to the unexpected spot. They just kept trying the same 3 or 5 plays and getting picked off. Where was the leadership there? I thought Robinson would have stepped up.@Crucial he like many of the blues were deers in headlights, they were in hole and unable to get out, big game experience won through
Didn't have a backup plan, unable to get any rhythm in thier own game, well unable to just play any rugby to put any pressure on the Crusaders.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
His whole kicking game from hand (apart from the odd kick pass) is terrible. He hasn’t improved much over time either. His touch finders last night were rubbish. Gaining bout 20m max. Arrogance to not hand the kicking to Perofeta.
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First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
