Final: Blues vs Crusaders
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
When Ofa came on to replace Laulala you could see Laulala having a frustrated moan about something to him. Whether it had to do with the line out I don’t know but it seemed so.
Communication breakdowns between jumpers and lifters?
I’m no lineout expert but I was surprised that the Blues did little to disrupt the Saders contesting. There were no shuffles and attempts to throw to the unexpected spot. They just kept trying the same 3 or 5 plays and getting picked off. Where was the leadership there? I thought Robinson would have stepped up.@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
When Ofa came on to replace Laulala you could see Laulala having a frustrated moan about something to him. Whether it had to do with the line out I don’t know but it seemed so.
Communication breakdowns between jumpers and lifters?
I’m no lineout expert but I was surprised that the Blues did little to disrupt the Saders contesting. There were no shuffles and attempts to throw to the unexpected spot. They just kept trying the same 3 or 5 plays and getting picked off. Where was the leadership there? I thought Robinson would have stepped up.Another thing I noticed was the relatively small gap at the line out pretty much all night. Part of the reason why the Saders' jumpers were able to steal the pill is because they didn't have to jump or reach across at all to do so. Someone in the Blues line out very early on should have got their line to step out and increase the gap or bring it to BOK's attention and get him to increase the gap. But that was symptomatic of the Blues' problems all night - they were spectators for so much of it, simply watching the Saders do as they pleased without being proactive about doing anything about it
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@Stargazer said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
https://twitter.com/PressNewsroom/status/1538401835622404096
That's a lot of words to say nothing at all.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me.I usually like akira. I’m certainly not in the anti-akira brigade. Just don’t think he stood out in the first half of the final and that for me is a little worrying. If that makes me a troll so be it.
I don't think he stood out in the first half too. But, he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline. Which meant he wasn't making lots of tackles (I would guess the bulk of his tackles would have been late first and second half) and due to the uselessness of the Blues to retain possession he wasn't getting the opportunity to run wide either.
Late in the first half he moved in closer and his tackling and running increased by proximity.
@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me.I usually like akira. I’m certainly not in the anti-akira brigade. Just don’t think he stood out in the first half of the final and that for me is a little worrying. If that makes me a troll so be it.
I don't think he stood out in the first half too. But, he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline.
Agreed. Akira's defensive value is his ability to be aggressive in close, he can manhandle ball carriers, wrap them up or strip them. He wasn't in the right place to do this for whatever reason.
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@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me.I usually like akira. I’m certainly not in the anti-akira brigade. Just don’t think he stood out in the first half of the final and that for me is a little worrying. If that makes me a troll so be it.
I don't think he stood out in the first half too. But, he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline.
Agreed. Akira's defensive value is his ability to be aggressive in close, he can manhandle ball carriers, wrap them up or strip them. He wasn't in the right place to do this for whatever reason.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me.I usually like akira. I’m certainly not in the anti-akira brigade. Just don’t think he stood out in the first half of the final and that for me is a little worrying. If that makes me a troll so be it.
I don't think he stood out in the first half too. But, he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline. Which meant he wasn't making lots of tackles (I would guess the bulk of his tackles would have been late first and second half) and due to the uselessness of the Blues to retain possession he wasn't getting the opportunity to run wide either.
Late in the first half he moved in closer and his tackling and running increased by proximity.
@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline
You have to then question the tactics considering the conditions.
And 'because that's how they always play' doesn't really cut it.
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@antipodean said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stargazer said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
https://twitter.com/PressNewsroom/status/1538401835622404096
That's a lot of words to say nothing at all.
Yeah was hoping for an insight, any insight, but the best the article had was a quote from last year which equated to "let's smash em". Compelling stuff.
Anyway I wonder how much Jase Ryan's stock has gone up recently after that scrum demolition.
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@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline
You have to then question the tactics considering the conditions.
And 'because that's how they always play' doesn't really cut it.
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline
You have to then question the tactics considering the conditions.
And 'because that's how they always play' doesn't really cut it.
Yeah, I agree. But it appears that Rangi trusts his systems considering how long he left Eklund out there. And TBF they’ve worked pretty well this year.
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Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle . -
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
He's actually pretty shit, and noticeably worse than when he started doing it. Def old man dancing now. Not that he cares, obviously!
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
He's actually pretty shit, and noticeably worse than when he started doing it. Def old man dancing now. Not that he cares, obviously!
Can't wait to see his dancing after he coaches the All Blacks to World Cup victory in 2035.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
He's actually pretty shit, and noticeably worse than when he started doing it. Def old man dancing now. Not that he cares, obviously!
Can't wait to see his dancing after he coaches the All Blacks to World Cup victory in 2035.
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The conditions nullified the Blues attacking potency; quick stepping and fleet footed. What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
Quite frankly I'm surprised they were in the fight on the scoreboard for so long, which says a lot about the attacking potency of the Crusaders and the Blues defence.
@antipodean said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
The conditions nullified the Blues attacking potency; quick stepping and fleet footed. What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
Quite frankly I'm surprised they were in the fight on the scoreboard for so long, which says a lot about the attacking potency of the Crusaders and the Blues defence.
Yet the Blues had the territory advantage in the second half and possession was 48/52. Blues attack really struggled to make inroads.
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@antipodean said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
The conditions nullified the Blues attacking potency; quick stepping and fleet footed. What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
Quite frankly I'm surprised they were in the fight on the scoreboard for so long, which says a lot about the attacking potency of the Crusaders and the Blues defence.
Yet the Blues had the territory advantage in the second half and possession was 48/52. Blues attack really struggled to make inroads.
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@antipodean said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
The conditions nullified the Blues attacking potency; quick stepping and fleet footed. What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
Quite frankly I'm surprised they were in the fight on the scoreboard for so long, which says a lot about the attacking potency of the Crusaders and the Blues defence.
Yet the Blues had the territory advantage in the second half and possession was 48/52. Blues attack really struggled to make inroads.
Advantage being 51:49 so it seemed that a change in tactics resulted in a slight improvement despite having less ball. So they finished the game on
So as I said: What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@antipodean said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
The conditions nullified the Blues attacking potency; quick stepping and fleet footed. What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
Quite frankly I'm surprised they were in the fight on the scoreboard for so long, which says a lot about the attacking potency of the Crusaders and the Blues defence.
Yet the Blues had the territory advantage in the second half and possession was 48/52. Blues attack really struggled to make inroads.
Advantage being 51:49 so it seemed that a change in tactics resulted in a slight improvement despite having less ball. So they finished the game on
So as I said: What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
@antipodean losing that attacking platform, and then when the front row changed they went from a solid scrum to struggling there too, so a struggling attack from either set peice is pretty tough, no matter what part of the field you get to.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
He's actually pretty shit, and noticeably worse than when he started doing it. Def old man dancing now. Not that he cares, obviously!
Can't wait to see his dancing after he coaches the All Blacks to World Cup victory in 2035.
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Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
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@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
Is that because Barrett did not play the French or Ireland we’re our Forward pack got dominated.
Tough for a First Five as we saw in the Final.
So BB didn’t have to play under those circumstances. -
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
I think if Razor was coach we'd see Mo'unga starting, not because Razor would have any bias towards him, but because he wasn't in the coaching setup that tried to implement the failed "duel playmaker" strategy at the RWC with Mo'unga at 10. The way Beauden has been favoured since makes me think Fozzie is still hurting from that and lost confidence that Mo'unga can handle test footy against the big boys.
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@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
I just hope we don't go down the path of trying to fit everyone into the starting side. If Mo'unga starts then I think the best thing to do is leave Beaudy on the bench instead of trying to fit him in at fullback. I'd prefer Jordan and Jordie there anyway but I think having Beaudy and Mo'unga starting together just blurs the lines of who's running the ship.
