Final: Blues vs Crusaders
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@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
I think if Razor was coach we'd see Mo'unga starting, not because Razor would have any bias towards him, but because he wasn't in the coaching setup that tried to implement the failed "duel playmaker" strategy at the RWC with Mo'unga at 10. The way Beauden has been favoured since makes me think Fozzie is still hurting from that and lost confidence that Mo'unga can handle test footy against the big boys.
@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
I think if Razor was coach we'd see Mo'unga starting, not because Razor would have any bias towards him, but because he wasn't in the coaching setup that tried to implement the failed "duel playmaker" strategy at the RWC with Mo'unga at 10. The way Beauden has been favoured since makes me think Fozzie is still hurting from that and lost confidence that Mo'unga can handle test footy against the big boys.
Not sure that's quite the right interpretation.
It was supposed to be "dual" playmaker, not "duel" - but, I think the latter is a bit the way it turned out - Beaudy a bit too dominant.
But, 2020, Fozzie carried on with the dual playmaker experiment and Richie played all five tests at first five, and Beaudy played at fullback.
In 2021, Richie still started as the favoured first five - he started 4 of the first five tests (skipped the first vs Fiji which BB started) and Beaudy came off the bench. (BB had been away on sabbatical so I think Fozzie rightfully gave him a little kick for that).
Richie then skipped several tests on paternity leave, which is where the shift came - Beady started several while he was away and DMac got a start as well.
When Richie came back Beaudy retained the starters jersey for the 2nd SA test, Wales and Ireland (where he got injured), while Richie started vs USA, Italy and France.
Mainly, I think Richie opened the door for Beaudy and that's always a risky business - and when RM came back, I didn't think he played particularly well.
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@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
I think if Razor was coach we'd see Mo'unga starting, not because Razor would have any bias towards him, but because he wasn't in the coaching setup that tried to implement the failed "duel playmaker" strategy at the RWC with Mo'unga at 10. The way Beauden has been favoured since makes me think Fozzie is still hurting from that and lost confidence that Mo'unga can handle test footy against the big boys.
@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Interesting some posting that Richie Mounga is now the clear number 1 10 in the country , I personally don’t think there’s much difference BB and Mounga , just different types of players , life is a hell of lot easier to showcase your skills when your pack is on top ..
Think back to the 2019 RWC semi final again against England , Mounga did not feature , only thing I can remember is his early missed tackle which England scored off..it set the tone for the game .
End of season tour last year , completely shut especially against France
So for me , unless their packs are operating at optimum..you could have god at first five and he’d probably struggle .The way Beauden and Richie finished last season, I think Beauden had his nose in front to start this year.
Relative performances in the final has it back at parity in my eyes.
I'm not bothered who starts, but if it's wet probably Richie's kicking game is better.
Who knows which way Fozzie will go.
I think if Razor was coach we'd see Mo'unga starting, not because Razor would have any bias towards him, but because he wasn't in the coaching setup that tried to implement the failed "duel playmaker" strategy at the RWC with Mo'unga at 10. The way Beauden has been favoured since makes me think Fozzie is still hurting from that and lost confidence that Mo'unga can handle test footy against the big boys.
There's that and the fact that Mounga has done nothing in tests since to make anyone think that 2019 isn't basically his level in tests
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@Chris-B far too many factual statements in that post. I do think they worry about Mo'unga's ability to execute their gameplan though given he's not one to take the line on the way Beauden does (e.g. happy to crash it up when there's no holes in the defensive line). I really don't think they use either player well at all.
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@Chris-B far too many factual statements in that post. I do think they worry about Mo'unga's ability to execute their gameplan though given he's not one to take the line on the way Beauden does (e.g. happy to crash it up when there's no holes in the defensive line). I really don't think they use either player well at all.
@No-Quarter Both of them would look a shitload better in tough tests with peak Ma'a Nonu to flick the ball on to.
But, as Steven Harris notes above - when your forward pack is getting beaten up, even God is going to struggle in the 10 jersey.
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@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference? -
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
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@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference? -
Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
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haven't read anything in this thread, but needed to pop in to say well played Crusaders, exceptional team effort and that performance deserved a championship. Congratulations.
Makes you wonder why the coach isn't involved in the ABs in some capacity.
@nzzp said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
haven't read anything in this thread, but needed to pop in to say well played Crusaders, exceptional team effort and that performance deserved a championship. Congratulations.
Makes you wonder why the coach isn't involved in the ABs in some capacity.
Respect to you also Sir for your Post.
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@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
His kicking was pop gun in the final.
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@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
His kicking was pop gun in the final.
@Frye said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
His kicking was pop gun in the final.
I'm used to Mitch Hunt, I'd say it was canon like.
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Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
@Toddy said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
I thought Mo’unga played okay against the Chiefs. We lacked possession so he didn’t have too many opportunities to try a lot, but I thought that was a good thing and forced a more measured approach when we did have ball. Havili was caught out a bit and didn’t have his best game.
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@Frye said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
His kicking was pop gun in the final.
I'm used to Mitch Hunt, I'd say it was canon like.
@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frye said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Frank said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Dice said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Perofeta > RM and BB
You reckon? Based on what?
What's his point of difference?Only thing I can really think of is when he's on song, his tactical kicking is easily superior - it's just that he tends to have a decent amount of time every game where he's not on song.
His kicking was pop gun in the final.
I'm used to Mitch Hunt, I'd say it was canon like.
Stuff of legend?
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@Toddy you lack specifics. Blues forwards.were dominated at the line-out throughout the game. At scrum first half Blues scrum got the better of the Crusaders, se one half after the front row was replaced we got smashed.
@number9 said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Toddy you lack specifics. Blues forwards.were dominated at the line-out throughout the game. At scrum first half Blues scrum got the better of the Crusaders, se one half after the front row was replaced we got smashed.
Getting over the gain line and the drive over the ball at ruck time to provide good ball for Bryn Hall was also noticeable by the Saders forwards.
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@Toddy said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
I thought Mo’unga played okay against the Chiefs. We lacked possession so he didn’t have too many opportunities to try a lot, but I thought that was a good thing and forced a more measured approach when we did have ball. Havili was caught out a bit and didn’t have his best game.
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Toddy said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
I thought Mo’unga played okay against the Chiefs. We lacked possession so he didn’t have too many opportunities to try a lot, but I thought that was a good thing and forced a more measured approach when we did have ball. Havili was caught out a bit and didn’t have his best game.
Nah don’t cop that one about Havilli he defended brilliantly and shut down QT,
He also kicked well.Go back and watch the game again. -
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Toddy said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
I thought Mo’unga played okay against the Chiefs. We lacked possession so he didn’t have too many opportunities to try a lot, but I thought that was a good thing and forced a more measured approach when we did have ball. Havili was caught out a bit and didn’t have his best game.
Nah don’t cop that one about Havilli he defended brilliantly and shut down QT,
He also kicked well.Go back and watch the game again.@Chris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Toddy said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Chiefs forwards dominated in the semi final and the Blues forwards were dominated in the final. RM and DH were average against the Chiefs in the semi final. Low and behold they looked liked world beaters against the Blues in the final.
Maybe Robertsons master plan is for forward dominance and that way the backs (especially RM) can let rip.
I thought Mo’unga played okay against the Chiefs. We lacked possession so he didn’t have too many opportunities to try a lot, but I thought that was a good thing and forced a more measured approach when we did have ball. Havili was caught out a bit and didn’t have his best game.
Nah don’t cop that one about Havilli he defended brilliantly and shut down QT,
He also kicked well.Go back and watch the game again.Defensively I thought he was great. It was more his attacking game that I was referring too. That’s what was being discussed.
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@number9 said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Toddy you lack specifics. Blues forwards.were dominated at the line-out throughout the game. At scrum first half Blues scrum got the better of the Crusaders, se one half after the front row was replaced we got smashed.
Getting over the gain line and the drive over the ball at ruck time to provide good ball for Bryn Hall was also noticeable by the Saders forwards.
@ACT-Crusader that's also true. For some.reason I thought the Blues tactics was to not commit too many forwards to the breakdown, could not understand why we did not compete like we did in the game in Christchurch where we dominated the Crusaders up front. Same b.s tactics that killed the ABs last year.
If I have to one criticism of Leons coaching is inability to make tactical changes especially at half time. Blues always seem to come out of the sheds flat, or tactics just remain the same.
