Carl Hayman
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I will always remember a guy whom I had dealings with at work. The first time I met him I was blown away by what an absolute arsehole he was, he flew into fits of rage and abused everybody in his path and destroyed as much property as possible. Then I spoke to his elderly father. It turns out this guy was a decorated veteran who was suffering from early onset dementia. He had lived a caring loving life up to that point. The behaviour we were seeing was not him. It was the dementia eating away at him. I learnt that early onset dementia can be particularly brutal. He passed away about a year later.
Carl has a big battle ahead of him. I wish him the very best.
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@voodoo said in Carl Hayman:
Fuck me
It's a fucking awful disease which a lot of people don't want to talk about. I hope big Carl's opening up helps break down some of barriers and increases awareness & understanding.
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I've got a guy working for me in Tauranga who suffered his 5th concussion about 6 weeks ago.
We are trying to assist him - He was off for about a month then we got him back for 3 hours a day o light duties. Like really light we have a casual who lifts everything for him - our guy just has to watch. He can't manage that and is now taking another month off to rest completely 24 hours / day.
I had no idea he had hurt his head so many times or I would have told him to give the footy away. Only in his early 20's poor bastard.
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@dogmeat said in Carl Hayman:
I've got a guy working for me in Tauranga who suffered his 5th concussion about 6 weeks ago.
We are trying to assist him - He was off for about a month then we got him back for 3 hours a day o light duties. Like really light we have a casual who lifts everything for him - our guy just has to watch. He can't manage that and is now taking another month off to rest completely 24 hours / day.
I had no idea he had hurt his head so many times or I would have told him to give the footy away. Only in his early 20's poor bastard.
Pretty poor medical advice (if he got any) to go that far.
Drs will still tell players that it's OK to continue but you'd think most players would know themselves when to stop.
The son took two concussions at school. We had him tested and baselined, did all the right stuff. He took another in club and was cleared by the doctor. He was too gun shy after that to play well and gave things up.
Tried playing one more time in the UK by just didn't feel comfortable and was always worried about taking another head shot. Walked away from the game.Thing is that none of his concussions came from foul play or poor tackling. Every one was just accidental in collisions at the tackle area. Unlucky timing and stuff.
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@Crucial while it sucks he had to give it up that is definitely the best call for his longer term health. Worrying about an injury or being concerned about another head knock doesn't work on the field aye. In fact you are more likely to get in a situation if you aren't going full noise imo. I only had a couple of head knocks and still miss the props life... amble, smash, push, lift, then take home all the wahines
Edit, I forget lean, always take time to lean on the ruck. Gotta get that O2 in somehow!
A mate at College was a menace openside and playing 1st 15 in 3rd form. Pretty sure he stopped play rugby at college. He was/is a super talented surfer and he had to wear a helmet while surfing due to all the head knocks he had in rugby. It would have been beyond shit if he had to give them both up.
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Carl Hayman: ‘I was a commodity in rugby. Now I’m paying the price’
Carl Hayman and Kiko Matthews’ lives have been completely changed by his dementia diagnosis and the family are searching for answers amid rugby’s deepening brain injury crisis
From the guy who left NZ rugby early to make as much money as possible in the NH.
I’m thinking rugby was the commodity and not you Carl.
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@Billy-Tell said in Carl Hayman:
Carl Hayman: ‘I was a commodity in rugby. Now I’m paying the price’
Carl Hayman and Kiko Matthews’ lives have been completely changed by his dementia diagnosis and the family are searching for answers amid rugby’s deepening brain injury crisis
From the guy who left NZ rugby early to make as much money as possible in the NH.
I’m thinking rugby was the commodity and not you Carl.
Did you read the article ?
He says it pretty matter of factly……he then goes on to say he was lucky he made money out of the game.
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Wasn't he convicted of serious domestic violence charges in France? Don't know if he can blame those on head-knocks.
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@MN5 said in Carl Hayman:
@Billy-Tell said in Carl Hayman:
Carl Hayman: ‘I was a commodity in rugby. Now I’m paying the price’
Carl Hayman and Kiko Matthews’ lives have been completely changed by his dementia diagnosis and the family are searching for answers amid rugby’s deepening brain injury crisis
From the guy who left NZ rugby early to make as much money as possible in the NH.
I’m thinking rugby was the commodity and not you Carl.
Did you read the article ?
He says it pretty matter of factly……he then goes on to say he was lucky he made money out of the game.
No I didn’t read the article. He mad his bed he lies in it now.
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@Billy-Tell said in Carl Hayman:
@MN5 said in Carl Hayman:
@Billy-Tell said in Carl Hayman:
Carl Hayman: ‘I was a commodity in rugby. Now I’m paying the price’
Carl Hayman and Kiko Matthews’ lives have been completely changed by his dementia diagnosis and the family are searching for answers amid rugby’s deepening brain injury crisis
From the guy who left NZ rugby early to make as much money as possible in the NH.
I’m thinking rugby was the commodity and not you Carl.
Did you read the article ?
He says it pretty matter of factly……he then goes on to say he was lucky he made money out of the game.
No I didn’t read the article. He mad his bed he lies in it now.
Fair enough. It’s the fern way.
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@Tim said in Carl Hayman:
Wasn't he convicted of serious domestic violence charges in France? Don't know if he can blame those on head-knocks.
Why not?
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@Tim said in Carl Hayman:
Wasn't he convicted of serious domestic violence charges in France? Don't know if he can blame those on head-knocks.
(Out of character?) eruptions of violence was certainly a characteristic of the NFL players who were found to have CTE.
Although you definitely want to be wary about blaming it, I think there has to be a measure of responsibility as well.
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It’s really bad what’s happened to him and there are going to be real ramifications for rugby here. Reading the article (unfernlike) it’s scary the level he’s at.
But I don’t accept that it caused domestic violence.
That’s a skid mark he has to wear.
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@Frye said in Carl Hayman:
@Tim said in Carl Hayman:
Wasn't he convicted of serious domestic violence charges in France? Don't know if he can blame those on head-knocks.
(Out of character?) eruptions of violence was certainly a characteristic of the NFL players who were found to have CTE.
Although you definitely want to be wary about blaming it, I think there has to be a measure of responsibility as well.
I've read a bit on the CTE, including the excellent book Concussion. Be careful of going down that rabbit hole, as it will reduce your enjoyment of contact sports (particularly NFL) significantly. Seriously, don't start if you don't want to know.
But @Tim one of the charactertistics is the change people have. Historically mild mannered individuals flare up, forget things, get frustrated. It's damn scary stuff.
So, he's responsible - but if he has CTE, then there are veyr likely other major drivers.
It's so sad for the dude, wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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@nzzp yeah I know someone who was such a mild mannered and gentle soul, the smallest things can trigger them into violence, this person requires special care facilities and obviously medication to deal with the violent outbursts.
So very sad.
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@nzzp said in Carl Hayman:
@Frye said in Carl Hayman:
@Tim said in Carl Hayman:
Wasn't he convicted of serious domestic violence charges in France? Don't know if he can blame those on head-knocks.
(Out of character?) eruptions of violence was certainly a characteristic of the NFL players who were found to have CTE.
Although you definitely want to be wary about blaming it, I think there has to be a measure of responsibility as well.
I've read a bit on the CTE, including the excellent book Concussion. Be careful of going down that rabbit hole, as it will reduce your enjoyment of contact sports (particularly NFL) significantly. Seriously, don't start if you don't want to know.
But @Tim one of the charactertistics is the change people have. Historically mild mannered individuals flare up, forget things, get frustrated. It's damn scary stuff.
So, he's responsible - but if he has CTE, then there are veyr likely other major drivers.
It's so sad for the dude, wouldn't wish it on anyone.
That characteristic was there in my experience - my dear mother departed a life of sacrifice, service, pride in her charges and joy in her days to a foreign world where the people about her were strangers. Of all the brothers and sisters I was the only one she recognised. We agreed she would be most unhappy with her existence and we investigated euthanasia.
The only good feature of the dementia condition is that is short lived.
A neighbour has recently disappeared from view and the family has reorganised itself around him falling victim. He suddenly switched from happiness to sudden anger. Crazy Horse touches on this up the page there, as does NZZP.
As good fortune would have it his family lives for each other and they have formed a protective circle around the 80 year old and mother. Three daughters and a grandson attend to a week per month each live-in care - one leaves her business in Sydney in her managers' hands - to ensure he has careful full time surveillance.
It does demand that level of attention, one must anticipate the most alarming anomalies.
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Front row: As a long term student and tradesman in the craft I was delighted when your Con Barrell (Auckland, Canterbury, Crusaders) turned up here some years ago, helping out with our juniors. We have enjoyed discussion on this vital subject many times over.
Carl Hayman's career fascinated me. He was way too tall for front row, yet then Sir Graham had him switch to tight head back in '03 or '04! I recalled the extra attention I had from my bloke to deal with my height at 6 feet, which was tall way back then - useful for No 2 in the lineout but his focus was on getting the open side technique right, to secure scrum ball. He came from a more educated position than most, he had competed in the field in the '62 Empire Games under an Eastern European master and he worked on precision, as his coach had.
I had a look through the record to find that Hayman was the tallest front rower used by the All Blacks from the late '70s until his departure in 2007.
Of the 21 players just four were less than 40 mm of his height and his most frequent partner, Tony Woodcock, was 90 mm (3½") shorter - at loose head. How did that work? Carl must have had double jointed knees to get his back down far enough, and parallel!
Was there anything else you need help on?
