Black Caps tour of England 2022
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When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
Lots of reasons but have NZC not learned that trying to tour without adequate preparation ends in failure? Talk about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
IPL fucks things up but it’s NZCs job to get past that. -
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
Lots of reasons but have NZC not learned that trying to tour without adequate preparation ends in failure? Talk about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
IPL fucks things up but it’s NZCs job to get past that.@Crucial said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
Lots of reasons but have NZC not learned that trying to tour without adequate preparation ends in failure? Talk about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
IPL fucks things up but it’s NZCs job to get past that.To be unusually fair to them, two warm-up first class games is probably more prep than most tours these days. The top order still shat the bed with the bat in one of those games as well...
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@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
Lots of reasons but have NZC not learned that trying to tour without adequate preparation ends in failure? Talk about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
IPL fucks things up but it’s NZCs job to get past that.@Crucial That argument would be more valid if we hadn't been in a position to win all three tests but failed to grasp the moment
1st Test England four down early chasing nearly 300
2nd test 550 in first innings after being put in
3rd Test England 6 down in first innings still nearly 300 behind!!That's not a lack of preparation.
If not for Mitch, Blundell and Boult we'd be Zimbabwe bad.
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Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
I don’t agree with that at all, the guy batting five in the first test went ok.
The other four are all in various degrees of terrible form though.
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@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
I don’t agree with that at all, the guy batting five in the first test went ok.
The other four are all in various degrees of terrible form though.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 Nice quick edit on that one...
It’s hard to type logically when you’re annoyed about the cricket
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 Nice quick edit on that one...
It’s hard to type logically when you’re annoyed about the cricket
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 Nice quick edit on that one...
It’s hard to think logically when you’re annoyed about the cricket
This morning I feel like that Warriors supporter video that went viral a few years back, especially the parody of the fan who wanted to sack everyone.
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@Crucial That argument would be more valid if we hadn't been in a position to win all three tests but failed to grasp the moment
1st Test England four down early chasing nearly 300
2nd test 550 in first innings after being put in
3rd Test England 6 down in first innings still nearly 300 behind!!That's not a lack of preparation.
If not for Mitch, Blundell and Boult we'd be Zimbabwe bad.
@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Crucial That argument would be more valid if we hadn't been in a position to win all three tests but failed to grasp the moment
1st Test England four down early chasing nearly 300
2nd test 550 in first innings after being put in
3rd Test England 6 down in first innings still nearly 300 behind!!That's not a lack of preparation.
If not for Mitch, Blundell and Boult we'd be Zimbabwe bad.
That pains me most of all, it’s not like this England team is amazing. In fact before the series I did a Sean Fitzpatrick like post mentioning how few Poms would make a combined team. It hasn’t aged well.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Crucial That argument would be more valid if we hadn't been in a position to win all three tests but failed to grasp the moment
1st Test England four down early chasing nearly 300
2nd test 550 in first innings after being put in
3rd Test England 6 down in first innings still nearly 300 behind!!That's not a lack of preparation.
If not for Mitch, Blundell and Boult we'd be Zimbabwe bad.
That pains me most of all, it’s not like this England team is amazing. In fact before the series I did a Sean Fitzpatrick like post mentioning how few Poms would make a combined team. It hasn’t aged well.
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The English team is definitely better than their recent results suggest, and with Baz at the helm he will get them playing to their strengths - i.e. playing attacking cricket which they do so well in the shorter forms - so while they'll no doubt have some losses they are actually a chance if picking up some great wins as well now.
As @dogmeat says, in all 3 tests we got into positions of dominance but then didn't have that killer instinct that we showed during the last WTC to finish the job. We're missing some all time greats (BJ, Rosco) and Kane has been in and out of the side lately, so that's going to hurt us giving our paper thin depth at the best if times. We just don't have the same experience and leadership across the board that we used to.
Still, we are a far cry from some of the genuine Black Craps teams of the past, still plenty of quality in our lineup, but the golden era does appear to have come to an end.
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Not all surprised at the series loss, or even 0-3.
I passed off the Bangladesh loss. But to get absolutely completely thrashed at home by the worst South African team since WW2 ( a few weeks after the Bangladeshi 'wake up call') showed that there was a huge momentum to the plummet ongoing that I couldn't see being reversed. A rot.
As for the actual measurable nuts and bolts to the decline. It is top order runs and old-ball bowling. That's the difference between now and 2 months ago.
As for the unmeasurable parts of the decline:
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Can only really guess. But there seems a motivation/complacency issue. Losing at home to Bangladesh didn't seem to make much of a wave.
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There is a leadership (coaching/captaincy/selection) issue. I don't care for a messiah coach, but I think Stead has been shown to be a cruiser who kept a steady hand when it was going well, but was incapable when wheels started falling off in some away tours (Australia) and the current decline.
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@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
I don’t agree with that at all, the guy batting five in the first test went ok.
The other four are all in various degrees of terrible form though.
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
I don’t agree with that at all, the guy batting five in the first test went ok.
The other four are all in various degrees of terrible form though.
OK
But last test top 5 order of:BATTING R B M 4s 6s SR
Tom Latham
c Root b Broad
0 6 5 0 0 0.00
Will Young
lbw b Leach
20 42 57 2 0 47.61
Kane Williamson (c)
c †Foakes b Broad
31 64 97 5 0 48.43
Devon Conway
b Overton
26 62 100 5 0 41.93
Henry Nicholls
c Lees b Leach
19 99 137 1 0 19.19 -
@MN5 I remember that hubristic post of yours.
At the time I thought it could well come back to bite you and wanted to call for your banning for posting it.
Mind you I want to get you banned for at least 50% of your posts!
@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 I remember that hubristic post of yours.
At the time I thought it could well come back to bite you and wanted to call for your banning for posting it.
Mind you I want to get you banned for at least 50% of your posts!
Only 50% ? I must try harder.
I think I’ll stick to boxing predictions, I do really well at them, I got the Tua/Cameron fight perfect !
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@Crucial said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
Lots of reasons but have NZC not learned that trying to tour without adequate preparation ends in failure? Talk about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
IPL fucks things up but it’s NZCs job to get past that.To be unusually fair to them, two warm-up first class games is probably more prep than most tours these days. The top order still shat the bed with the bat in one of those games as well...
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Crucial said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
When your top order fails to fire, and you compound this with poor selection and tactics, we had no chance. Captaincy from Kane and Tom seemed to lack inspiration
Lots of reasons but have NZC not learned that trying to tour without adequate preparation ends in failure? Talk about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
IPL fucks things up but it’s NZCs job to get past that.To be unusually fair to them, two warm-up first class games is probably more prep than most tours these days. The top order still shat the bed with the bat in one of those games as well...
England is the only tour guaranteed to get warm-up games.
But NZ turned both of the games from FC status to miscellaneous status12 or 15-a-side games. SO that they could drip-feed returning IPL players into the matches as they got progressively got knocked out of the IPL.
That is no one's 'fault' but NZ's own, the team management.
In some ways, that seems a decent approach. I can support them turning the second game into that sort of open-net status match.
But not the first match. Which predictably absolutely zero IPL players joined hall-way through.
I'm a believer in the status of the match sharpening the attitudes (that's how I am wired anyway ...) I don't really care if our absolutely best players got a poor lead-up, they can cope. But to hobble the non-IPL stars is just ham-fisted myopia.
The biggest mystery of the warm-ups was Wagner's lack of overs. He was under-bowled in the home summer domestically.
I actually cancelled my Spark subscription after the first test as it was so predictably soft after a squandered build-up. Cancelled in contempt and disgust at the lack of attitude.
Similarly I cancelled my Sky subscription back after day1 Boxing Day test after NZ squandered their 9 day gap before the second test by cancelling their (admittedly pathetically non-FC status) tour game because it was too hot, (Rather than have prepared properly and flown over 4 brand new tour bowlers for that match only, got the batters time in the middle on foreign pitches in match that counts to their career records).
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@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
I don’t agree with that at all, the guy batting five in the first test went ok.
The other four are all in various degrees of terrible form though.
OK
But last test top 5 order of:BATTING R B M 4s 6s SR
Tom Latham
c Root b Broad
0 6 5 0 0 0.00
Will Young
lbw b Leach
20 42 57 2 0 47.61
Kane Williamson (c)
c †Foakes b Broad
31 64 97 5 0 48.43
Devon Conway
b Overton
26 62 100 5 0 41.93
Henry Nicholls
c Lees b Leach
19 99 137 1 0 19.19@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Darren said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Mitchell and Blundell are two huge positives to come out of this.
The top 5 have been comically bad. Currently without a doubt the worst top 5 going. By a long way. Not even close.
I don’t agree with that at all, the guy batting five in the first test went ok.
The other four are all in various degrees of terrible form though.
OK
But last test top 5 order of:BATTING R B M 4s 6s SR
Tom Latham
c Root b Broad
0 6 5 0 0 0.00
Will Young
lbw b Leach
20 42 57 2 0 47.61
Kane Williamson (c)
c †Foakes b Broad
31 64 97 5 0 48.43
Devon Conway
b Overton
26 62 100 5 0 41.93
Henry Nicholls
c Lees b Leach
19 99 137 1 0 19.19That’s grim reading for sure but they’re not all of a sudden minnows, they all have the talent to come back although the form slump in all of them at once is devastating for a team trying to compete at test level.
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The English team is definitely better than their recent results suggest, and with Baz at the helm he will get them playing to their strengths - i.e. playing attacking cricket which they do so well in the shorter forms - so while they'll no doubt have some losses they are actually a chance if picking up some great wins as well now.
As @dogmeat says, in all 3 tests we got into positions of dominance but then didn't have that killer instinct that we showed during the last WTC to finish the job. We're missing some all time greats (BJ, Rosco) and Kane has been in and out of the side lately, so that's going to hurt us giving our paper thin depth at the best if times. We just don't have the same experience and leadership across the board that we used to.
Still, we are a far cry from some of the genuine Black Craps teams of the past, still plenty of quality in our lineup, but the golden era does appear to have come to an end.
