All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones Those stats only say something about where a player starts. It doesn't give info about a player changing position during a game as a result of substitutions.
We're talking about starting aren't we?
To me starting at 6 is what's weird about his selection. It means either Retallick & Whitelock play the full game or one is replaced by a SB who's played 6 since kick-off.
I think that's the hardest part to swallow for me - after all the talk of the 6's, as well as Vaai playing 6 (presumably at Foster's suggestion) and excelling, we go back to a guy who should be starting at lock and hasn't exactly set the world on fire at 6.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones Those stats only say something about where a player starts. It doesn't give info about a player changing position during a game as a result of substitutions.
We're talking about starting aren't we?
To me starting at 6 is what's weird about his selection. It means either Retallick & Whitelock play the full game or one is replaced by a SB who's played 6 since kick-off.
I think that's the hardest part to swallow for me - after all the talk of the 6's, as well as Vaai playing 6 (presumably at Foster's suggestion) and excelling, we go back to a guy who should be starting at lock and hasn't exactly set the world on fire at 6.
What also annoys me is it takes away another chance to see a young player get some game time.
Vaai was a bolter in 2020 - went better than expected - and has barely been sighted in black since.
Grace picked in 2020 - one test off the bench for a handful of minutes I think (the Bledisloe loss in Brisbane) - never seen again.
Sotutu barely played last year - Hodgman picked and discarded - De Groot picked and discarded - Peter Umaga Jensen impressive cameo then never seen again.
Meanwhile nearly 3 years after the RWC 2019 semi we roll out a forward pack that is pretty damn close to our forward pack then.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones Those stats only say something about where a player starts. It doesn't give info about a player changing position during a game as a result of substitutions.
We're talking about starting aren't we?
To me starting at 6 is what's weird about his selection. It means either Retallick & Whitelock play the full game or one is replaced by a SB who's played 6 since kick-off.
I think that's the hardest part to swallow for me - after all the talk of the 6's, as well as Vaai playing 6 (presumably at Foster's suggestion) and excelling, we go back to a guy who should be starting at lock and hasn't exactly set the world on fire at 6.
What also annoys me is it takes away another chance to see a young player get some game time.
Vaai was a bolter in 2020 - went better than expected - and has barely been sighted in black since.
Grace picked in 2020 - one test off the bench for a handful of minutes I think (the Bledisloe loss in Brisbane) - never seen again.
Sotutu barely played last year - Hodgman picked and discarded - De Groot picked and discarded - Peter Umaga Jensen impressive cameo then never seen again.
Meanwhile nearly 3 years after the RWC 2019 semi we roll out a forward pack that is pretty damn close to our forward pack then.
@KiwiMurph GFYs
That's depressing.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones It's even more amusing than that!!!
On ya for doing the research! Not quite sure what to make of the feeling that no one remembers it other than 2019...
@Bones I never would have guessed!!!
I think it's 11. He replaced Squire a lot in his early tests - and also played there three times at RWC 2019 - plus a few others.
Played the second half vs Ireland and also most of the 2nd half vs South Africa at RWC 2019.
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@Bones Tupaea doesn't have what it takes at this level, should be RTS all day long...
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones Tupaea doesn't have what it takes at this level, should be RTS all day long...
Bower is substandard
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
Pre-match, I thought the Barrett selection was a masterstroke.
It gave us four good lineout options against England's two - and the last time we'd played England, taking their lineout apart had been the decisive factor.
Who was to know it would be Itoje who would do the dismantling against all our options?
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@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
S Barrett didn't play badly in that loss but not attacking the English lineout (that only had 2 jumpers) made no sense whatsoever. Realistically they should have dropped Retallick, started Barrett at lock and kept Cane. Y'know, the backrow that was working.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
Pre-match, I thought the Barrett selection was a masterstroke.
It gave us four good lineout options against England's two - and the last time we'd played England, taking their lineout apart had been the decisive factor.
Who was to know it would be Itoje who would do the dismantling against all our options?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
Pre-match, I thought the Barrett selection was a masterstroke.
It gave us four good lineout options against England's two - and the last time we'd played England, taking their lineout apart had been the decisive factor.
Who was to know it would be Itoje who would do the dismantling against all our options?
It wasn't the selection that was the reason we lost - it was extraordinary dumb play time and time again by players who should have used their experience and not panicked. As for Read's captaincy, who can ever forget the wild-eyed, rabbit-in-headlights aura he gave off that day.
Not that things have improved that much.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones Those stats only say something about where a player starts. It doesn't give info about a player changing position during a game as a result of substitutions.
We're talking about starting aren't we?
To me starting at 6 is what's weird about his selection. It means either Retallick & Whitelock play the full game or one is replaced by a SB who's played 6 since kick-off.
I think that's the hardest part to swallow for me - after all the talk of the 6's, as well as Vaai playing 6 (presumably at Foster's suggestion) and excelling, we go back to a guy who should be starting at lock and hasn't exactly set the world on fire at 6.
What also annoys me is it takes away another chance to see a young player get some game time.
Vaai was a bolter in 2020 - went better than expected - and has barely been sighted in black since.
Grace picked in 2020 - one test off the bench for a handful of minutes I think (the Bledisloe loss in Brisbane) - never seen again.
Sotutu barely played last year - Hodgman picked and discarded - De Groot picked and discarded - Peter Umaga Jensen impressive cameo then never seen again.
Meanwhile nearly 3 years after the RWC 2019 semi we roll out a forward pack that is pretty damn close to our forward pack then.
@KiwiMurph that sort of thing has been happening for eons though in terms of players, in particular young players (like Sotutu, Vaa’i) getting sporadic minutes.
What might be taking away valuable time for one player is valuable time for the other!
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
Pre-match, I thought the Barrett selection was a masterstroke.
It gave us four good lineout options against England's two - and the last time we'd played England, taking their lineout apart had been the decisive factor.
Who was to know it would be Itoje who would do the dismantling against all our options?
@Chris-B we didn't attack thier lineout or utilise whatever advantages he was to bring...
I guess we will see if they have learnt from that experience
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@KiwiMurph that sort of thing has been happening for eons though in terms of players, in particular young players (like Sotutu, Vaa’i) getting sporadic minutes.
What might be taking away valuable time for one player is valuable time for the other!
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@KiwiMurph that sort of thing has been happening for eons though in terms of players, in particular young players (like Sotutu, Vaa’i) getting sporadic minutes.
What might be taking away valuable time for one player is valuable time for the other!
Think of it this way.
Imagine if someone had told you the day after the 2019 Rwc Semi this would be the ABs forward pack to start the season 3 years later.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@KiwiMurph that sort of thing has been happening for eons though in terms of players, in particular young players (like Sotutu, Vaa’i) getting sporadic minutes.
What might be taking away valuable time for one player is valuable time for the other!
Think of it this way.
Imagine if someone had told you the day after the 2019 Rwc Semi this would be the ABs forward pack to start the season 3 years later.
@KiwiMurph Imagine if someone had watched that game and decided that Ardie Savea was undroppable. They'd have to be legitimately insane.
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@KiwiMurph Imagine if someone had watched that game and decided that Ardie Savea was undroppable. They'd have to be legitimately insane.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@KiwiMurph Imagine if someone had watched that game and decided that Ardie Savea was undroppable. They'd have to be legitimately insane.
At least he put some points on the board!
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Right, who's next?
Retallick isn't good enough to be starting and should be replaced by Vaai.
Edit: And the Taylor selection is a disgrace.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
And the Taylor selection is a disgrace.
No, you see, because Samisoni is the better player, we give him 20 minutes off the bench for IMPACT!!!!!!
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
Pre-match, I thought the Barrett selection was a masterstroke.
It gave us four good lineout options against England's two - and the last time we'd played England, taking their lineout apart had been the decisive factor.
Who was to know it would be Itoje who would do the dismantling against all our options?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew and to be fair, IMO SB was not the problem in 2019, our game plan was askew and we had a lock we relied on, just back from injury and horribly out of form.
I'd rather he not be trialled at 6 in test matches though, especially as our game plan hasnt really evolved since 2019....
@Chris Never!
absolutely he wasnt the worst on the paddock in the semi against England when most of our forwards shit the bed in my view, but he wasn't playing like a six either. I just hope it doesnt mean the team plays like that again if he gets selected there
Pre-match, I thought the Barrett selection was a masterstroke.
It gave us four good lineout options against England's two - and the last time we'd played England, taking their lineout apart had been the decisive factor.
Who was to know it would be Itoje who would do the dismantling against all our options?
Jesus man you're not meant to admit that stuff, you're meant to just stick the boot in after the game when it fails
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That said, benching Cane was seen by most as an absolutely insane thing to do prior to that match, which proved to be right. What the hell were they thinking.
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That said, benching Cane was seen by most as an absolutely insane thing to do prior to that match, which proved to be right. What the hell were they thinking.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
That said, benching Cane was seen by most as an absolutely insane thing to do prior to that match, which proved to be right. What the hell were they thinking.
I think they just got arrogant after walloping Ireland and England's lineout problems against in 2018. At least, after the last 2 years, the arrogance has gone.
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Sotutu is the most unlucky IMO, he was sublime this season and should be starting with Ardie on the bench and bringing impact later. Paps should be starting 6 and SB on the bench to cover lock and 6.
But I guess Fozzie and co know best so I am sure the starters will all have blinders.
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So the last big game at 6 he got exposed for pace at six, has he gotten faster in the past three years?
SR games at 6 against weaker sides leave us in the Frizzel realm. Effective, even good, at SR level and a damp squib at the next level up.
Now at lock he’s proven himself (even with regular brain farts).
