All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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Quick day after match report.
The sun's shining again, but really we haven't learned a lot. I'm keen to watch the replay, as the game felt a bit low key for a 20+ point victory.
We won, and won well, but I don't think we've learned a massive amount about either side we didn't know.
Modern rugby has a huge issue with complaints to the ref. Need to just leave them to do their job and get on with playing. The captain talking to the ref has got out of hand (not just Ireland here), and the appealing of players gets very old. It's smart rugby if you can get away with it, but i don't think it's good for the sport.
Ref was good - no major howlers that were visible to any of us in the crowd, Irish or Kiwi alike.
Irish struggled if they weren't winning breakdown penalties. AB defence was equal parts excellent and average - conceding three (and could be 4-5) tries wasn't flash.
Aaron's pass is the best in teh business. Was just nonchalantly firing it our 3-4 channels, right on the chest. Superb. Rieko had one of his best games organising the defence - he's clearly our locked on centre. Our kicking wasn't fantastic; others have done BB to death for it, but we need to get better in this area.
Mo'unga showed when he came on that the time and space at Test level is significantly down. Ennor was a donkey. PGS scored a good try, but no idea what the Irish defenders were doing.
Locks went OK - did their core role. We're praying we get one more year out of Sam, and that BBBR comes back strongly from his injury and sabbatical.
ScoBa needs some serious update to his cleanout technique. He's running some massive risks getting in shoulder first, and it'll catch him again soon - for what, the 3rd Red in the last couple of years? Good cynical munter though (like all forwards)
Christie looked sharp when he came on, but his pass is a big step backwards.
JGP took some poor options; hasn't improved massively since his Blues days.
On a different night, with a different ref, the Irish are right in there. They missed Sexton big time after he went off. If we're off our game slightly, the Irish don't drop quite so much ball and win some penalties - then it'd be hard to separate them. But today, it's a 20 point win, and looking for next week. Dunedin should be fun with the indoor stadium.
So a good night out again, looking forward to more good rugby to come this season.
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further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
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further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
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Quick day after match report.
The sun's shining again, but really we haven't learned a lot. I'm keen to watch the replay, as the game felt a bit low key for a 20+ point victory.
We won, and won well, but I don't think we've learned a massive amount about either side we didn't know.
Modern rugby has a huge issue with complaints to the ref. Need to just leave them to do their job and get on with playing. The captain talking to the ref has got out of hand (not just Ireland here), and the appealing of players gets very old. It's smart rugby if you can get away with it, but i don't think it's good for the sport.
Ref was good - no major howlers that were visible to any of us in the crowd, Irish or Kiwi alike.
Irish struggled if they weren't winning breakdown penalties. AB defence was equal parts excellent and average - conceding three (and could be 4-5) tries wasn't flash.
Aaron's pass is the best in teh business. Was just nonchalantly firing it our 3-4 channels, right on the chest. Superb. Rieko had one of his best games organising the defence - he's clearly our locked on centre. Our kicking wasn't fantastic; others have done BB to death for it, but we need to get better in this area.
Mo'unga showed when he came on that the time and space at Test level is significantly down. Ennor was a donkey. PGS scored a good try, but no idea what the Irish defenders were doing.
Locks went OK - did their core role. We're praying we get one more year out of Sam, and that BBBR comes back strongly from his injury and sabbatical.
ScoBa needs some serious update to his cleanout technique. He's running some massive risks getting in shoulder first, and it'll catch him again soon - for what, the 3rd Red in the last couple of years? Good cynical munter though (like all forwards)
Christie looked sharp when he came on, but his pass is a big step backwards.
JGP took some poor options; hasn't improved massively since his Blues days.
On a different night, with a different ref, the Irish are right in there. They missed Sexton big time after he went off. If we're off our game slightly, the Irish don't drop quite so much ball and win some penalties - then it'd be hard to separate them. But today, it's a 20 point win, and looking for next week. Dunedin should be fun with the indoor stadium.
So a good night out again, looking forward to more good rugby to come this season.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
PGS scored a good try, but no idea what the Irish defenders were doing.
TBH I think they were caught off guard by the speed from the base of the scrum, ref wasnt in a great spot for thier flanker to break, but he wouldnt have got him anyway, they were all slow in reacting.
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@chimoaus I haven't seen the whole game only catching snippets at a function, but saw that scrum mentioned early in his peice...for me it was good from NZ but it looked more that Ireland overcomplicated and overcrowded that short side, which worked against whatever move they had, making it simple for us to defend.
On the pen on Ryan re Smith moving the ball, every single 9 does that, and is a bug bear of mine.
So often they will fuck around moving it into ideal passing or kicking position, have hands on it for seconds before passing it, often while organising a screen of blockers if they are kicking.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@chimoaus I haven't seen the whole game only catching snippets at a function, but saw that scrum mentioned early in his peice...for me it was good from NZ but it looked more that Ireland overcomplicated and overcrowded that short side, which worked against whatever move they had, making it simple for us to defend.
On the pen on Ryan re Smith moving the ball, every single 9 does that, and is a bug bear of mine.
So often they will fuck around moving it into ideal passing or kicking position, have hands on it for seconds before passing it, often while organising a screen of blockers if they are kicking.
The binding of players in maul situations creates room for the holding of players in. Just up to every individual to keep themselves in the game. So good use of laws I would think?
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Yeah sure the Barrett clean out might not reach the red card threshold, but fuck what's the point in what he did? Beyond stupid, like his 3-4 dives over the ruck early in the game for absolutely zero result other than giving us shit ball and the ref a reason to penalise us. Someone needs to sit him down with these clips and ask him why, tell him to pull his head in.
Edit: without that shit it was a top notch locks game.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Someone needs to sit him down with these clips and ask him why, tell him to pull his head in.
My mate said before the match that he heard he was seeing a psychologist to help him better control himself on the field. I still don't know if he was being serious or not - it was via text and we weren't joking about anything else.
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How come last year or two we have been underpowered in the forwards playing SA, France, Ireland with the bulk of the forwards the same as today. Taylor, Ofa, SW, BBBR, Sam C, Ardie, ScoBa.
This time they were great. Loved the error free play and ball retention.Sam Whitelock deserves a knighthood
Think we should bring in a next gen prop to give experience Newell, Norris
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further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
Again Shoulder to Shoulder. SB is making his move as soon as the player picks up the ball - both in a crouched position. If you were to replay every contact close the the line you would so a lot of this. It’s rugby.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
Again Shoulder to Shoulder. SB is making his move as soon as the player picks up the ball - both in a crouched position. If you were to replay every contact close the the line you would so a lot of this. It’s rugby.
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
Again Shoulder to Shoulder. SB is making his move as soon as the player picks up the ball - both in a crouched position. If you were to replay every contact close the the line you would so a lot of this. It’s rugby.
I think Red Barrett was saved by the Irish dude ducking his head. Ducking his head to avoid the shoulder that is. He could've taken one for his team and had Red Barrett sent off and sitting on the sidelines for a few weeks.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
Again Shoulder to Shoulder. SB is making his move as soon as the player picks up the ball - both in a crouched position. If you were to replay every contact close the the line you would so a lot of this. It’s rugby.
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@kev I'd want to see other angles, but the first contact looks to me like Scott gets him in the back of the head?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@kev I'd want to see other angles, but the first contact looks to me like Scott gets him in the back of the head?
Only a graze if that. Clearly contact is solidly shoulder to shoulder. You are not going to win contact on the line without hitting hard with the shoulder. No doubt it’s risky if the ball carrier is bent with head down. But in that situation getting shoulder to shoulder contact is the way to win the contact.
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That is just dumb as fuck. For a start he was coming from the side, some refs might ping him for that, there was no chance of getting the ball so don't take the risk, and he led with his head and shoulder to a guy crouched down.
@Nepia was it a red card? no
Was it a YC? I'd say pen only, but the way the game is now, then probably a YC
Was it necessary? No
Was it stupid? yes
Has he done it before? yesThe last 2 are key for me, stupid, and he has done it before, more than once.
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That is just dumb as fuck. For a start he was coming from the side, some refs might ping him for that, there was no chance of getting the ball so don't take the risk, and he led with his head and shoulder to a guy crouched down.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
That is just dumb as fuck. For a start he was coming from the side, some refs might ping him for that, there was no chance of getting the ball so don't take the risk, and he led with his head and shoulder to a guy crouched down.
He is early and comes from side. So clear penalty - that’s a matter of timing.
The guy crouched down is like every other close to the line situation. If you want to get into a dominant position with tackle, when defending close to the line with players leaving maul in low positions or diving in, then it’s all about initiating and winning the contact. That’s just rugby.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
Again Shoulder to Shoulder. SB is making his move as soon as the player picks up the ball - both in a crouched position. If you were to replay every contact close the the line you would so a lot of this. It’s rugby.
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
further to my Scott Barrett point, check this out - right at the end of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/vpno6v/scott_owes_the_nz_tv_directors_a_beer_they_saw/
Again Shoulder to Shoulder. SB is making his move as soon as the player picks up the ball - both in a crouched position. If you were to replay every contact close the the line you would so a lot of this. It’s rugby.
So apt against Ireland
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@kev I'd want to see other angles, but the first contact looks to me like Scott gets him in the back of the head?
Only a graze if that. Clearly contact is solidly shoulder to shoulder. You are not going to win contact on the line without hitting hard with the shoulder. No doubt it’s risky if the ball carrier is bent with head down. But in that situation getting shoulder to shoulder contact is the way to win the contact.
@kev I'd want to see some other angles, because the first one often doesn't show a proper picture - but, you can't really risk even minimal initial contact with the head.
On the plus side, Marius likes to be involved, so you'd imagine he would've had a few looks at different angles in his TMO box.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
That is just dumb as fuck. For a start he was coming from the side, some refs might ping him for that, there was no chance of getting the ball so don't take the risk, and he led with his head and shoulder to a guy crouched down.
He is early and comes from side. So clear penalty - that’s a matter of timing.
The guy crouched down is like every other close to the line situation. If you want to get into a dominant position with tackle, when defending close to the line with players leaving maul in low positions or diving in, then it’s all about initiating and winning the contact. That’s just rugby.
@kev I don't even believe your shoulder to shoulder claim based on that footage, as @chris-b states we need to see more footage.
I'm not going to G&GR it because I'm too lazy, but if you pause it at 20 seconds it's shoulder hitting head.
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@kev I don't even believe your shoulder to shoulder claim based on that footage, as @chris-b states we need to see more footage.
I'm not going to G&GR it because I'm too lazy, but if you pause it at 20 seconds it's shoulder hitting head.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@kev I don't even believe your shoulder to shoulder claim based on that footage, as @chris-b states we need to see more footage.
I'm not going to G&GR it because I'm too lazy, but if you pause it at 20 seconds it's shoulder hitting head.
Whatever it was, it was reckless and ineffective, almost all of the potential outcomes were going to be bad. The fact that SB put his hands up apologetically so fast suggests to me that he knew he could be in a spot of bother
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The whinging in the replies to that tweet are absolutely delicious
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
The whinging in the replies to that tweet are absolutely delicious
It seems to be a national characteristic.
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@kev I don't even believe your shoulder to shoulder claim based on that footage, as @chris-b states we need to see more footage.
I'm not going to G&GR it because I'm too lazy, but if you pause it at 20 seconds it's shoulder hitting head.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@kev I don't even believe your shoulder to shoulder claim based on that footage, as @chris-b states we need to see more footage.
I'm not going to G&GR it because I'm too lazy, but if you pause it at 20 seconds it's shoulder hitting head.
It’s a graze, then the shoulder hits the shoulder and the guy goes backward.
So understand all the points about risk with head contact. You can see the ABs have worked really hard - everyone crouching, arms low, trying to do the right thing.
What Scott Barrett gets criticised for quite rightly is when he has got it wrong. But the thing that makes him good is he looking to be dominant and putting himself in situations to do so.Just in this situation, I think close to the line it’s incredibly tough - lots of shoulder to shoulder stuff.
Away from the line, in general tackle situations with guys with time, generally up right and moving with a lot more momentum then fair call.
