All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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About time the trope that Ardie is a 7 playing at being an 8 is put to pasture isn't it?
The guy is an ex-7
It's like complaining that Nonu was a winger playing 12.
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies, with those we have.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
Injured isn't he?Edit:ah, see someone said COVID
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@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
Injured isn't he?Edit:ah, see someone said COVID
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
Injured isn't he?
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
covid
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@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies, with those we have.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past. -
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
Injured isn't he?
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
covid
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
Injured isn't he?
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
covid
#booboo
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@Duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I think the loosies later in the year will be Cane, Savea plus Dalton/Akira. Who starts and who is on the bench out of the Blues loosies will change depending on tactics/opposition
sighs in Hoskins Sotutu
wait, that reads wrong...
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Hoskins Sotutu
He'd be in my 23. I was predicting what I think they'll do
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Hoskins Sotutu
He'd be in my 23. I was predicting what I think they'll do
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Hoskins Sotutu
He'd be in my 23. I was predicting what I think they'll do
and i agree with both your points
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I'm pretty excited about that bench. PGS, Pat T, Fakatava, Mo'unga and Jordan are all players that can make an impact in the 2nd 40.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
About time the trope that Ardie is a 7 playing at being an 8 is put to pasture isn't it?
The guy is an ex-7
It's like complaining that Nonu was a winger playing 12.
not sure i agree, nonu became one of if not the best 12 in the world....do we think savea can say the same? or is he still playing largely as a 7 just from the back of the scrum
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
covid
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
About time the trope that Ardie is a 7 playing at being an 8 is put to pasture isn't it?
The guy is an ex-7
It's like complaining that Nonu was a winger playing 12.
not sure i agree, nonu became one of if not the best 12 in the world....do we think savea can say the same? or is he still playing largely as a 7 just from the back of the scrum
And Nonu played a number of tests at 13 before he was eventually moved to 12. Perhaps Ardie’s time at 7 was the aberration and he and the AB coaches have found his natural home at number 8?
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
About time the trope that Ardie is a 7 playing at being an 8 is put to pasture isn't it?
The guy is an ex-7
It's like complaining that Nonu was a winger playing 12.
not sure i agree, nonu became one of if not the best 12 in the world....do we think savea can say the same? or is he still playing largely as a 7 just from the back of the scrum
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm slightly surprised that they haven't gone with Cane at 6 and Papalii at 7, but my brain is probably too old school on that one.
Paps is 6'4 so probs logical in a 'traditional' sense.
where teh fuck did Paddy T come from to get named in the squad?? where's Vaa??!
covid
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
About time the trope that Ardie is a 7 playing at being an 8 is put to pasture isn't it?
The guy is an ex-7
It's like complaining that Nonu was a winger playing 12.
not sure i agree, nonu became one of if not the best 12 in the world....do we think savea can say the same? or is he still playing largely as a 7 just from the back of the scrum
WR Awards seem to think otherwise...from end of 2021
All Blacks loose forward Ardie Savea has been ranked No.2 among the 100 best players in the world.
Of Savea, Rugby World said: "We think we know all about nuances needed in each of the positions in the back row. But once in a blue moon, a player rushes into the Test game with the toolkit to excel at flanker or at eight. Ardie Savea has cracked it, smiling as he goes…
And for the same period was named in the team of the year at 8
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Pleased to see Ross and Fakatava in the 23 - giving Big Karl more tests is a bit wasteful now.
I should have recommended giving FF a run off the bench this week. All going well, Aaron Smith can be rested next week.
Continuity is good.
Will Jordan on the bench makes for a bit more juggling than I like if we get a midfield injury, but it might be a pointer that we'll see Jordie get some time at 2nd five?
As previously, I don't like the balance of the loose forwards, but it's a bit boring to labour that point.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.I think the point is more that, of the things the loose forwards have to cover, Ardie at 8 means less bruiser and less height, so close meters and lineout deficiencies as a trio. Because 8s are generally taller and heavier. Not saying I agree, but that's the simplified argument as I understand it
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.I think the point is more that, of the things the loose forwards have to cover, Ardie at 8 means less bruiser and less height, so close meters and lineout deficiencies as a trio. Because 8s are generally taller and heavier. Not saying I agree, but that's the simplified argument as I understand it
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.I think the point is more that, of the things the loose forwards have to cover, Ardie at 8 means less bruiser and less height, so close meters and lineout deficiencies as a trio. Because 8s are generally taller and heavier. Not saying I agree, but that's the simplified argument as I understand it
I wonder if Ardie's athleticism confuses those with ideas of what makes a traditional 8.
Read had good athleticism for a while but nowhere near the levels of Ardie.
Read was used more in the lineout I admit but if 'bruiser' is a criteria I never saw him as one of those. -
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.I think it's just that the roles change over time. Some of the Ardie debate gives me flashbacks to the Rodney So'oialo arguments on the fern
If peak Read was around he'd probably be playing 6 etc
At some stage tactics will change and an out an out fetcher at 7 will come back as will a large lump at 8
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@Chris-B Sotutu starting with Ardie on the bench makes so much sense to me, but just won't happen.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B Sotutu starting with Ardie on the bench makes so much sense to me, but just won't happen.
I just don't get this. If Ardie is 'best in the world' at 8 why bench him. If it's because he is versatile, that versatility is still there either way.
I just don't get why people can't handle an 8/7 as they do an 8/6 or a 6/8
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.I think it's just that the roles change over time. Some of the Ardie debate gives me flashbacks to the Rodney So'oialo arguments on the fern
If peak Read was around he'd probably be playing 6 etc
At some stage tactics will change and an out an out fetcher at 7 will come back as will a large lump at 8
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial whether Ardie's best spot at 8 is irrelevent in the sense that him playing at 8 still affects the balance of our loosies.
That said, the growth of DP in the past year as a player and leader, playing at 6 has some appeal, this could be awesome, or, well, not....
Explain.
Seems to me that traditional loose forward roles have been moved past.I think it's just that the roles change over time. Some of the Ardie debate gives me flashbacks to the Rodney So'oialo arguments on the fern
If peak Read was around he'd probably be playing 6 etc
At some stage tactics will change and an out an out fetcher at 7 will come back as will a large lump at 8
Fetchers are almost redundant under current interpretations.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B Sotutu starting with Ardie on the bench makes so much sense to me, but just won't happen.
I just don't get this. If Ardie is 'best in the world' at 8 why bench him. If it's because he is versatile, that versatility is still there either way.
I just don't get why people can't handle an 8/7 as they do an 8/6 or a 6/8
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B Sotutu starting with Ardie on the bench makes so much sense to me, but just won't happen.
I just don't get this. If Ardie is 'best in the world' at 8 why bench him. If it's because he is versatile, that versatility is still there either way.
I just don't get why people can't handle an 8/7 as they do an 8/6 or a 6/8
Not his versatility, I think his high energy but less physical style of play is well suited to coming off the bench with 30 to go against tired players. If it wasn't for Sotutu I'd want Ardie starting, but Sotutu has the potential to be a world class 8, which would allow us to use Ardie as a weapon off the bench. I don't like the idea that benching him means I don't rate him - I think he would be a genuine match winner coming on fresh in the 2nd 40.
