All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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On the Ardie sub who should they have picked to go off instead? They needed to take someone off for the scrum. Probably LF and play without a winger for the match?
The standard move is to go without a loosie. I think Dalton was already off for the previous YC for that reason
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
On the Ardie sub who should they have picked to go off instead? They needed to take someone off for the scrum. Probably LF and play without a winger for the match?
The standard move is to go without a loosie. I think Dalton was already off for the previous YC for that reason
I wondered at the time whether it was one of those scenarios that they hadn't considered, so the "take a loosie off" button just got automatically pushed a second time.
Seems like a difficult situation either way, but in hindsight they probably should have dragged LF and had Ardie still available and able to range wider at times...
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I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
I could see Fozzie being good if he had world class assistants. He doesn’t.
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@Victor-Meldrew Bower, Paps or Smith to captain.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew Bower, Paps or Smith to captain.
That would have been an option if we had won today but we didn't. They'll stick with Sam as incumbent captain. He'll know he had a poor game so don't expect that again.
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If we become a league country, we could watch our best players every week in the same premier comp.
I'm not even a big league fan but the writing is on the wall. It's not even about Foster anymore, he's just the bacteria that flourishes in a weakened immune system. We can't keep all our best players, can't organise a decent competition...Foster is the natural reflection of the state of the game.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
In reality what else are they going to say in public. We pulled Fozzie into the environment to help the Chiefs and put him out to pasture for a few years.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
I could see Fozzie being good if he had world class assistants. He doesn’t.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
I could see Fozzie being good if he had world class assistants. He doesn’t.
Isn't that his choice?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland has done us a favour.
Test rugby has always been about the team that makes the less mistakes wins. As a person who experienced test rugby in the 70s (can't remember much to be honest), the 80s, 90s up to now, the rugby that the ABs play now doesn't feel like test rugby. There is a lack of territorial awareness which means a lack of pragmatic kicking, they invite chaos near their line which more often than not has negative results, etc, etc.
It is hard to explain but in the Foster era, they give it up too easily.We have no desire to play the territory game
Because our 10 has a shit territory game.
Richie will be better next time.
Wasn't that what was said last time?
He's great at SR level, good when the AB's are in charge, has skills to burn but just doesn't seem able to take the final step.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland has done us a favour.
Test rugby has always been about the team that makes the less mistakes wins. As a person who experienced test rugby in the 70s (can't remember much to be honest), the 80s, 90s up to now, the rugby that the ABs play now doesn't feel like test rugby. There is a lack of territorial awareness which means a lack of pragmatic kicking, they invite chaos near their line which more often than not has negative results, etc, etc.
It is hard to explain but in the Foster era, they give it up too easily.We have no desire to play the territory game
Because our 10 has a shit territory game.
Richie will be better next time.
Wasn't that what was said last time?
He's great at SR level, good when the AB's are in charge, has skills to burn but just doesn't seem able to take the final step.
I thought he was good. Challenged the line, through a great cut out pass to PGS who dropped it…. What did you think he did wrong?
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@hydro11 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
If Ofa was replaced, we would have to go down to 13.
No, Bower could have stayed on and moved to TH in the 2nd half when Ross came on.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
If Ofa was replaced, we would have to go down to 13.
No, Bower could have stayed on and moved to TH in the 2nd half when Ross came on.
Didn’t the scrums go uncontested when Ross came on and Ardie went off?
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I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
There's a list of reasons to question Hansen. That's just one of them.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
I could see Fozzie being good if he had world class assistants. He doesn’t.
Isn't that his choice?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
I could see Fozzie being good if he had world class assistants. He doesn’t.
Isn't that his choice?
100% fair, you do a good job as my rational conscious angel
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Haven't read the thread since the final whistle as I am so pissed off. What a complete and utter shit-show.
OK, there were some positives, our D was great and Nugget, Reece, Bower & Scooter played their socks off and the team really fought back in the 1st half. Players showing some leadership and stepped up after the kick to the corner
But bugger me, we seemed to go into the 2nd half with our heads somewhere in cloud 9. What the fuck did the coaching staff say to the players at half-time as our momentum went backwards fucking quickly.
Our kick and chase game was awful and ended up gifting possession and putting us on the back foot. Ireland targeted our mid-field after last week (who'd have thunk that). Then we saw the same old pattern we've seen since 2017 - promising moves or periods of the game fucked up by silly mistakes, helter-skelter passing everywhere. And as for Ardie's leaving the field, WTF?
You could pass some of this shit off last week with all the injuries & Covid stuff if we didn't play so well - but we did - so we can omit that excuse. Cane played poorly today but we've had exactly the same problems under Read, Ardie & Sam. There was so much that was bad that you lose track of them.
Maybe it isn't just a coaching issue and it's a head-space, culture thing but the current set-up just isn't addressing the problems of playing thru periods of pressure, and playing consistently in more than a game in a row and we sure as heck aren't moving in the right direction.
Fuck me, i'm angry and frustrated as we prove time and time again we can play really, really well but we are on a treadmill of constant fuck-ups, poor discipline by the players and directionless tactics and play.
You know, I really don't know if this is Foster's fault, and I'm beyond blaming any one person, but he really, really isn't the answer.
Yours,
Angry of Cornwall
(Rant over)
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Haven't read the thread since the final whistle as I am so pissed off. What a complete and utter shit-show.
OK, there were some positives, our D was great and Nugget, Reece, Bower & Scooter played their socks off and the team really fought back in the 1st half. Players showing some leadership and stepped up after the kick to the corner
But bugger me, we seemed to go into the 2nd half with our heads somewhere in cloud 9. What the fuck did the coaching staff say to the players at half-time as our momentum went backwards fucking quickly.
Our kick and chase game was awful and ended up gifting possession and putting us on the back foot. Ireland targeted our mid-field after last week (who'd have thunk that). Then we saw the same old pattern we've seen since 2017 - promising moves or periods of the game fucked up by silly mistakes, helter-skelter passing everywhere. And as for Ardie's leaving the field, WTF?
You could pass some of this shit off last week with all the injuries & Covid stuff if we didn't play so well - but we did - so we can omit that excuse. Cane played poorly today but we've had exactly the same problems under Read, Ardie & Sam. There was so much that was bad that you lose track of them.
Maybe it isn't just a coaching issue and it's a head-space, culture thing but the current set-up just isn't addressing the problems of playing thru periods of pressure, and playing consistently in more than a game in a row and we sure as heck aren't moving in the right direction.
Fuck me, i'm angry and frustrated as we prove time and time again we can play really, really well but we are on a treadmill of constant fuck-ups, poor discipline by the players and directionless tactics and play.
You know, I really don't know if this is Foster's fault, and I'm beyond blaming any one person, but he really, really isn't the answer.
Yours,
Angry of Cornwall
(Rant over)
That's a good point, we seem to lose the plot even more after halftime in the sheds, what is happening there?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
In reality what else are they going to say in public. We pulled Fozzie into the environment to help the Chiefs and put him out to pasture for a few years.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
In reality what else are they going to say in public. We pulled Fozzie into the environment to help the Chiefs and put him out to pasture for a few years.
I hate this as it seems like I'm defending Foster. I'm not.
But Wayne-o voluntereed (Volunteered y'all) in an interview that judging Foster on his Chiefs performance didn't allow opportunity for peopel to learn and grow. The clear inference was he rated him.
Now I've thrown up in my mouth a bit
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland has done us a favour.
Test rugby has always been about the team that makes the less mistakes wins. As a person who experienced test rugby in the 70s (can't remember much to be honest), the 80s, 90s up to now, the rugby that the ABs play now doesn't feel like test rugby. There is a lack of territorial awareness which means a lack of pragmatic kicking, they invite chaos near their line which more often than not has negative results, etc, etc.
It is hard to explain but in the Foster era, they give it up too easily.We have no desire to play the territory game
Because our 10 has a shit territory game.
Richie will be better next time.
Wasn't that what was said last time?
He's great at SR level, good when the AB's are in charge, has skills to burn but just doesn't seem able to take the final step.
I thought he was good. Challenged the line, through a great cut out pass to PGS who dropped it…. What did you think he did wrong?
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland has done us a favour.
Test rugby has always been about the team that makes the less mistakes wins. As a person who experienced test rugby in the 70s (can't remember much to be honest), the 80s, 90s up to now, the rugby that the ABs play now doesn't feel like test rugby. There is a lack of territorial awareness which means a lack of pragmatic kicking, they invite chaos near their line which more often than not has negative results, etc, etc.
It is hard to explain but in the Foster era, they give it up too easily.We have no desire to play the territory game
Because our 10 has a shit territory game.
Richie will be better next time.
Wasn't that what was said last time?
He's great at SR level, good when the AB's are in charge, has skills to burn but just doesn't seem able to take the final step.
I thought he was good. Challenged the line, through a great cut out pass to PGS who dropped it…. What did you think he did wrong?
It was a "nothing to lose" situation. He doesn't inspire me with his ability to run a game as a starter. As a sub he's fine.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I wonder if Hansen is a sick bastard and hated Fozzie the entire time and vouched for him just so he could watch him fail. Makes you question Hansens ability if he thought Fozzie could actually coach.
in fairness, Wayne Smith rated him too Mch as it pains me to say it
In reality what else are they going to say in public. We pulled Fozzie into the environment to help the Chiefs and put him out to pasture for a few years.
I hate this as it seems like I'm defending Foster. I'm not.
But Wayne-o voluntereed (Volunteered y'all) in an interview that judging Foster on his Chiefs performance didn't allow opportunity for peopel to learn and grow. The clear inference was he rated him.
Now I've thrown up in my mouth a bit
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@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland has done us a favour.
Test rugby has always been about the team that makes the less mistakes wins. As a person who experienced test rugby in the 70s (can't remember much to be honest), the 80s, 90s up to now, the rugby that the ABs play now doesn't feel like test rugby. There is a lack of territorial awareness which means a lack of pragmatic kicking, they invite chaos near their line which more often than not has negative results, etc, etc.
It is hard to explain but in the Foster era, they give it up too easily.We have no desire to play the territory game
Because our 10 has a shit territory game.
Richie will be better next time.
Wasn't that what was said last time?
He's great at SR level, good when the AB's are in charge, has skills to burn but just doesn't seem able to take the final step.
I thought he was good. Challenged the line, through a great cut out pass to PGS who dropped it…. What did you think he did wrong?
It was a "nothing to lose" situation. He doesn't inspire me with his ability to run a game as a starter. As a sub he's fine.
@Victor-Meldrew ABs ran with a scaled back game plan last week. Players didn't have to overthink and could play on instinct.
This week, maybe the overcomplicated game plan got dusted off, because players looked lost at times. Maybe it was just the pressure, but don't think so.
There is no shame in losing a test to this Ireland team. They are a good, well coached outfit. Losing a series though... that's another matter. ABs luckily have another chance to put this test behind them. Big week.
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I’m going to come back at my point on Cane by pointing out that he led the team for tackles (13,1) and that Paps was the least busy with (5,0), so maybe it is early to put it on Cane.
The guys up front might be a bit different, even Scooters stats aren’t that good.
Ofa’s are a fucking nightmare - 5 penalties and a YC, 2 missed tackles and all of 6 metres.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I’m going to come back at my point on Cane by pointing out that he led the team for tackles (13,1) and that Paps was the least busy with (5,0), so maybe it is early to put it on Cane.
The guys up front might be a bit different, even Scooters stats aren’t that good.
Ofa’s are a fucking nightmare - 5 penalties and a YC, 2 missed tackles and all of 6 metres.
He's a big strong lad and I was hoping he'd improve his game but as far as I can see he has gone backwards. They have to blood the younger more promising tightheads..
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Now I've thrown up in my mouth a bit
A bit?
if it was more than a bit, it wouldn't be in my mouth
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Haven't read the thread since the final whistle as I am so pissed off. What a complete and utter shit-show.
OK, there were some positives, our D was great and Nugget, Reece, Bower & Scooter played their socks off and the team really fought back in the 1st half. Players showing some leadership and stepped up after the kick to the corner
But bugger me, we seemed to go into the 2nd half with our heads somewhere in cloud 9. What the fuck did the coaching staff say to the players at half-time as our momentum went backwards fucking quickly.
Our kick and chase game was awful and ended up gifting possession and putting us on the back foot. Ireland targeted our mid-field after last week (who'd have thunk that). Then we saw the same old pattern we've seen since 2017 - promising moves or periods of the game fucked up by silly mistakes, helter-skelter passing everywhere. And as for Ardie's leaving the field, WTF?
You could pass some of this shit off last week with all the injuries & Covid stuff if we didn't play so well - but we did - so we can omit that excuse. Cane played poorly today but we've had exactly the same problems under Read, Ardie & Sam. There was so much that was bad that you lose track of them.
Maybe it isn't just a coaching issue and it's a head-space, culture thing but the current set-up just isn't addressing the problems of playing thru periods of pressure, and playing consistently in more than a game in a row and we sure as heck aren't moving in the right direction.
Fuck me, i'm angry and frustrated as we prove time and time again we can play really, really well but we are on a treadmill of constant fuck-ups, poor discipline by the players and directionless tactics and play.
You know, I really don't know if this is Foster's fault, and I'm beyond blaming any one person, but he really, really isn't the answer.
Yours,
Angry of Cornwall
(Rant over)
That's a good point, we seem to lose the plot even more after halftime in the sheds, what is happening there?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Haven't read the thread since the final whistle as I am so pissed off. What a complete and utter shit-show.
OK, there were some positives, our D was great and Nugget, Reece, Bower & Scooter played their socks off and the team really fought back in the 1st half. Players showing some leadership and stepped up after the kick to the corner
But bugger me, we seemed to go into the 2nd half with our heads somewhere in cloud 9. What the fuck did the coaching staff say to the players at half-time as our momentum went backwards fucking quickly.
Our kick and chase game was awful and ended up gifting possession and putting us on the back foot. Ireland targeted our mid-field after last week (who'd have thunk that). Then we saw the same old pattern we've seen since 2017 - promising moves or periods of the game fucked up by silly mistakes, helter-skelter passing everywhere. And as for Ardie's leaving the field, WTF?
You could pass some of this shit off last week with all the injuries & Covid stuff if we didn't play so well - but we did - so we can omit that excuse. Cane played poorly today but we've had exactly the same problems under Read, Ardie & Sam. There was so much that was bad that you lose track of them.
Maybe it isn't just a coaching issue and it's a head-space, culture thing but the current set-up just isn't addressing the problems of playing thru periods of pressure, and playing consistently in more than a game in a row and we sure as heck aren't moving in the right direction.
Fuck me, i'm angry and frustrated as we prove time and time again we can play really, really well but we are on a treadmill of constant fuck-ups, poor discipline by the players and directionless tactics and play.
You know, I really don't know if this is Foster's fault, and I'm beyond blaming any one person, but he really, really isn't the answer.
Yours,
Angry of Cornwall
(Rant over)
That's a good point, we seem to lose the plot even more after halftime in the sheds, what is happening there?
You might as well be referring to England vs NZ RWC 19
