All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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Taylor and Tu'ungafasi should be embarrassed watching that footage as they are the main culprits missing one-on-one tackles.
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Taylor and Tu'ungafasi should be embarrassed watching that footage as they are the main culprits missing one-on-one tackles.
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That vision is damning
How easily do they isolate a front rower?
Notice our shape is not too much different but everyone is flatter. Meaning less options, less time, and often a less effective clean. And Ireland have the one out the back for the 2nd option (which we did a bit on Saturday as well).
Damning of individuals and their so called structure.
I think part of this is why we are more prone to reds. We are trying for individuals to stop momentum, rather than multiple players. Thus we need a bigger hit. Which increases our risk profile.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
That vision is damning
How easily do they isolate a front rower?
Notice our shape is not too much different but everyone is flatter. Meaning less options, less time, and often a less effective clean. And Ireland have the one out the back for the 2nd option (which we did a bit on Saturday as well).
Damning of individuals and their so called structure.
I think part of this is why we are more prone to reds. We are trying for individuals to stop momentum, rather than multiple players. Thus we need a bigger hit. Which increases our risk profile.
Agree, I said in another thread, or maybe this one who knows, that the poor discipline and cards we are getting feel like a symptom of a poorly coached team, and I think you've articulated it well there. As we are being exposed players are getting desperate to try and stop the momentum so taking more and more risks to do so.
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@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
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@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
Funny how many of our players excelled during Super Rugby. Suddenly they look shadows of themselves. The players didn't suddenly became rubbish overnight. It has to be the coaching and systems not putting them in a position to be successful
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
Funny how many of our players excelled during Super Rugby. Suddenly they look shadows of themselves. The players didn't suddenly became rubbish overnight. It has to be the coaching and systems not putting them in a position to be successful
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
Funny how many of our players excelled during Super Rugby. Suddenly they look shadows of themselves. The players didn't suddenly became rubbish overnight. It has to be the coaching and systems not putting them in a position to be successful
They were flat footed with guys running at pace at space. This was at the start of the game mostly, with nice straight defensive lines. To me it looks like simple one on one targeting of guys who don’t move that well. Nothing magical. Luckily they are our most mobile front row
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@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
@antipodean thanks!
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I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
People may say things out of frustration, but the ideal - for everyone except his mum - is that we win and he gets the sack.
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@booboo I've tried to give him credit, especially the way we started last year where he had time to build the team structure & gameplan he wanted after a difficult first year and there were some positive signs, but I've seen enough now. A win this weekend would be great, and I'll enjoy it like I do any other AB win, but I won't fool myself into thinking we're actually going to string some consistent performances together. None of Fosters teams have been able to do that, and his record with the ABs is no different - we can look great when things click, but against the top teams we'll more than likely get found out.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
People may say things out of frustration, but the ideal - for everyone except his mum - is that we win and he gets the sack.
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
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@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them.
What do you expect of a nation that decide neutrality was best during WW2?
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
Spot on. The AB’s need more variation and finesse in attack rather just relying on Smith’s cutout passes which the Irish have learnt how to combat from first test. They rely too much on individual brilliance.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
I can also see the pattern he’s trying to create. The odd win is ruining it though.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Genuine question, I can't see any pattern. Could you explain?
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Genuine question, I can't see any pattern. Could you explain?
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Genuine question, I can't see any pattern. Could you explain?
I think Billy is being sarcastic
Foster's pattern is to make the ABs more beatable so as to enter the 2023 WC without the favourites tag and with such low expectations that they have a punchers chance of winning.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
I watched up until the first try and can already see that our attack has not changed at all whereas Ireland’s defence has changed markedly. Thanks for making me even more depressed
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
I watched up until the first try and can already see that our attack has not changed at all whereas Ireland’s defence has changed markedly. Thanks for making me even more depressed
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
I watched up until the first try and can already see that our attack has not changed at all whereas Ireland’s defence has changed markedly. Thanks for making me even more depressed
Apologies, but Vic asked when we last started well.
