All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in.
I think the issue is not the losses so much, it's the manner of the losses/performances.
If you look at things the ABs can control, things like their attacking shape, their defensive system, their kicking game, there are real problems there - the same problems that came up last year.
There's almost no sign of progress or change being made with the ABs.
Despite 12 months of superior form from Samisoni the likes of Codie Taylor are nailed on starters etc.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Crucial yep, def one of the issues.
BUt you have to wonder, all this aimless kicking (ignoring the length for a moment) is surely part of the game plan? Maybe not aimless, but not putting it to touch, we are kicking it to them to run back at us, therefore are we meant to be pressuring them with our kick chase more, is our chase defence not doing its job?
It's more that Ireland have learned from old AB tricks and run very good blocking lines while retreating meaning that we can't get to those kicks to contest or pressure. We used to do the same to other teams and they stopped kicking to us
@Crucial although our kick chase could still be better, too often a lone ranger chasing up, in staggered lines rather than straight or sweeping reducing options.
I reckon DC, right now could still run this ship better than we see currently.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Can you persuade me by giving examples of coaches who got better after more than a dozen years on the job? They are few and far between. Even great coaches tend to fade with age, rather than get better, which is also contrary to the "you get better with experience" line.
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Can you persuade me by giving examples of coaches who got better after more than a dozen years on the job? They are few and far between. Even great coaches tend to fade with age, rather than get better, which is also contrary to the "you get better with experience" line.
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
With plenty of lessons in those first 4 years - rotation, pressure, gameplan, midfield. Things in my view started to come right around late 08, even if we had tough losses in 09, but you could see what was happening and the direction.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Can you persuade me by giving examples of coaches who got better after more than a dozen years on the job? They are few and far between. Even great coaches tend to fade with age, rather than get better, which is also contrary to the "you get better with experience" line.
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
With plenty of lessons in those first 4 years - rotation, pressure, gameplan, midfield. Things in my view started to come right around late 08, even if we had tough losses in 09, but you could see what was happening and the direction.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
but you could see what was happening and the direction.
And that seems to be the issue with us right now, you cant see where they are going, or what they are changing to achieve it, whatever 'it' is.
I mean we have made zero progress on the rush defence in what, 5 years? Why have we not tried to employ it, given our defence in that same period has gotten worse.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Can you persuade me by giving examples of coaches who got better after more than a dozen years on the job? They are few and far between. Even great coaches tend to fade with age, rather than get better, which is also contrary to the "you get better with experience" line.
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
"Good" Auckland coach? He won the NPC four years in a row, then went on to win the Super Rugby title two years in a row. You are grossly understating his coaching at the time. He was a f**cking great coach and should have been straight to the ABs.
Then he left for Wales, and proceeded to immediately turn them around. They had eleven straight victories and was titled "The Great Redeemer".
He took a while to readjust to the ABs, but losing one semi-final did not at any time make him a bad coach. He had a record for his first four years that Foster would kill for.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
"Good" Auckland coach? He won the NPC four years in a row, then went on to win the Super Rugby title two years in a row. You are grossly understating his coaching at the time. He was a f**cking great coach and should have been straight to the ABs.
Then he left for Wales, and proceeded to immediately turn them around. They had eleven straight victories and was titled "The Great Redeemer".
He took a while to readjust to the ABs, but losing one semi-final did not at any time make him a bad coach. He had a record for his first four years that Foster would kill for.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
"Good" Auckland coach? He won the NPC four years in a row, then went on to win the Super Rugby title two years in a row. You are grossly understating his coaching at the time. He was a f**cking great coach and should have been straight to the ABs.
Then he left for Wales, and proceeded to immediately turn them around. They had eleven straight victories and was titled "The Great Redeemer".
He took a while to readjust to the ABs, but losing one semi-final did not at any time make him a bad coach. He had a record for his first four years that Foster would kill for.
That's why I don't remember that game.
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@Frank Agree for some teachers but teachers involved in research (usually higher education) can get better. I suppose it is similar to going to a doctor/dentist who was trained 30 years ago and hasn't added any strings to his bow since.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Frank Agree for some teachers but teachers involved in research (usually higher education) can get better. I suppose it is similar to going to a doctor/dentist who was trained 30 years ago and hasn't added any strings to his bow since.
You jest surely? Research makes you better in the classroom? My mate was ambitious and did his Masters in Education. What a waste of time that was!
The only advantage that doing the post-grad stuff does is what I said -- taking the time to do something different. That refreshes you just because it is something different. I took some time out a few years back, and just being out of the classroom for a while made me better when I returned.
A lot of coaches would be better off if they simply took a sabbatical every eight years or so.
I do think that coaching overseas is a massive help. It makes coaches see the game differently, and exposes them to new ways.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
"Good" Auckland coach? He won the NPC four years in a row, then went on to win the Super Rugby title two years in a row. You are grossly understating his coaching at the time. He was a f**cking great coach and should have been straight to the ABs.
Then he left for Wales, and proceeded to immediately turn them around. They had eleven straight victories and was titled "The Great Redeemer".
He took a while to readjust to the ABs, but losing one semi-final did not at any time make him a bad coach. He had a record for his first four years that Foster would kill for.
That's why I don't remember that game.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
That's why I don't remember that game.
I've only ever been told about it, so details are very hazy to me.
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Happy to see Nepo, Whitelock, Jordan and Havili back in the starting lineup. Like the bench too.
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@Duluth Havili, RTS...
They make changes, but not much really changed
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Duluth Havili, RTS...
Has either played 13? I don't think RTS has. DH is a poor defender at 12, will be worse our wider.
JB?
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ah, hi, yeah look i know we have spent a few days gnashing on a poor AB performance (and focusing on Origin) but
why didn't someone tell me ST was injured?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Duluth Havili, RTS...
Has either played 13? I don't think RTS has. DH is a poor defender at 12, will be worse our wider.
JB?
@Kirwan has JB...empty cupboard was what I was leaning at....stay safe Rieko.
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