All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129271632/all-blacks-new-cap-roger-tuivasasheck-gets-coachs-nod-for-confidence-and-calmness#comments
" What that tells Havili is that he will not play 80min. "I'd have thought Havili might need to be fb cover in case the backline needs shuffling, sure Jordan can replace JB but who would replace a winger? Don't tell me JB is wing as well as midfield cover!??
I'm not sure why that's in reply to a post about Taukieaho.
Anyway I've read the thread now and am fucking gobsmacked. Lost what little faith I had left in this coaching group, what a bunch of Fucktards.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129271632/all-blacks-new-cap-roger-tuivasasheck-gets-coachs-nod-for-confidence-and-calmness#comments
" What that tells Havili is that he will not play 80min. "I'd have thought Havili might need to be fb cover in case the backline needs shuffling, sure Jordan can replace JB but who would replace a winger? Don't tell me JB is wing as well as midfield cover!??
I'm not sure why that's in reply to a post about Taukieaho.
Anyway I've read the thread now and am fucking gobsmacked. Lost what little faith I had left in this coaching group, what a bunch of Fucktards.
my fault sorry Bones, was meant to be just to the thread.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129271632/all-blacks-new-cap-roger-tuivasasheck-gets-coachs-nod-for-confidence-and-calmness#comments
" What that tells Havili is that he will not play 80min. "I'd have thought Havili might need to be fb cover in case the backline needs shuffling, sure Jordan can replace JB but who would replace a winger? Don't tell me JB is wing as well as midfield cover!??
Thats enough interwebbing for you pal...you are stuck in some kind of loop
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Thats enough interwebbing for you pal...you are stuck in some kind of loop
yeah when I watch the ABs now I keep thinking I am watching the Chiefs 2004-2011...
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Just when you think Foster couldn't surprise you anymore, he explains the omission of ST with "we wanted to give all 3 hookers a run".
It's quite staggering when you step back and read that explanation.
It's the sort of thing I'd expect from the coach of my U9 sons soccer team. To hear it as the reason for including a bloke who has played 80 tests for NZ , at the expense of the best #2 in the squad, in a series-deciding game at home, is truly astonishing.
Unbelievable
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Just when you think Foster couldn't surprise you anymore, he explains the omission of ST with "we wanted to give all 3 hookers a run".
It's quite staggering when you step back and read that explanation.
It's the sort of thing I'd expect from the coach of my U9 sons soccer team. To hear it as the reason for including a bloke who has played 80 tests for NZ , at the expense of the best #2 in the squad, in a series-deciding game at home, is truly astonishing.
Unbelievable
Disclaimer: haven't read all the thread.
When I saw the 23 I though Sami might have unfit or Foster wanted to go for experience - which would have made some sense along with DH at 12. But then he puts RTS with about a dozen games of top level RU in the 23 to cover midfield (good for him and hope he goes as well as people say he will). And now he comes up with "wanting to give all 3 hookers a run"?
Seriously? WTF does wanting to give a player a run have to do with picking the best 23?
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129271632/all-blacks-new-cap-roger-tuivasasheck-gets-coachs-nod-for-confidence-and-calmness#comments
" What that tells Havili is that he will not play 80min. "I'd have thought Havili might need to be fb cover in case the backline needs shuffling, sure Jordan can replace JB but who would replace a winger? Don't tell me JB is wing as well as midfield cover!??
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129271632/all-blacks-new-cap-roger-tuivasasheck-gets-coachs-nod-for-confidence-and-calmness#comments
" What that tells Havili is that he will not play 80min. "I'd have thought Havili might need to be fb cover in case the backline needs shuffling, sure Jordan can replace JB but who would replace a winger? Don't tell me JB is wing as well as midfield cover!??
Akira or Paps probably. I've reached the stage where nothing would surprise me.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will not at all be surprised to see Papalii come on at 6 and Ioane come on at 8.
Akira played a chunk at seven with those experimental laws. So Akira to seven, Dalton to 8 and Cane to switch to 6.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will not at all be surprised to see Papalii come on at 6 and Ioane come on at 8.
Akira played a chunk at seven with those experimental laws. So Akira to seven, Dalton to 8 and Cane to switch to 6.
Ardie to 12, Mounga to 15, Havili to 10 and RTS to 11/14.
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Just when you think Foster couldn't surprise you anymore, he explains the omission of ST with "we wanted to give all 3 hookers a run".
It's quite staggering when you step back and read that explanation.
It's the sort of thing I'd expect from the coach of my U9 sons soccer team. To hear it as the reason for including a bloke who has played 80 tests for NZ , at the expense of the best #2 in the squad, in a series-deciding game at home, is truly astonishing.
Unbelievable
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Just when you think Foster couldn't surprise you anymore, he explains the omission of ST with "we wanted to give all 3 hookers a run".
It's quite staggering when you step back and read that explanation.
It's the sort of thing I'd expect from the coach of my U9 sons soccer team. To hear it as the reason for including a bloke who has played 80 tests for NZ , at the expense of the best #2 in the squad, in a series-deciding game at home, is truly astonishing.
Unbelievable
Seriously? No he didn’t, did he?
Can imagine Irish trying to pick themselves up from laughing too much
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@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.
Harsh to shame someone on a diet.
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@Dan54 Big Grace fan (as you can see from previous posts) and I think Sotutu and Grace should be in the ABs as specialist No.8s competing for the position against each other. But you'd think Sotutu would get a go first and foremost if they were taking this line of thought? His SR form was great (he had a big improvement in physicality), his No.8 skills off the back of the scrum are exceptional... and yet he hasn't been sighted.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 Big Grace fan (as you can see from previous posts) and I think Sotutu and Grace should be in the ABs as specialist No.8s competing for the position against each other. But you'd think Sotutu would get a go first and foremost if they were taking this line of thought? His SR form was great (he had a big improvement in physicality), his No.8 skills off the back of the scrum are exceptional... and yet he hasn't been sighted.
Obsession with the best player in the world means no game time available.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.
Proof that scones aren't brain-food?
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will not at all be surprised to see Papalii come on at 6 and Ioane come on at 8.
Akira played a chunk at seven with those experimental laws. So Akira to seven, Dalton to 8 and Cane to switch to 6.
Ardie to 12, Mounga to 15, Havili to 10 and RTS to 11/14.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will not at all be surprised to see Papalii come on at 6 and Ioane come on at 8.
Akira played a chunk at seven with those experimental laws. So Akira to seven, Dalton to 8 and Cane to switch to 6.
Ardie to 12, Mounga to 15, Havili to 10 and RTS to 11/14.
Sure you're joking but I reckon Ardie would have gone ok at 12 with a season or two at the lower level.
Don't know his kicking game but we don't seem to use that at 12. Brief glimpses from Havili excepted. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If ST was dumped for Taylor I will not know what to say.
Taylor is missing impact, passes, tackles... seems to have slipped mightily since a few years ago.I'm not so upset about Hoskins, a fine 8 in the making but it is getting to the stage where I worry this ABs setup will give him some bad habits...
Looks like he was “dumped” for Coles given Taylor is in the same spot he has been all series…
Just on Taylor, his attack was okay in Test 1. Thought his throwing and support play was starting to come good. His tight work wasn’t where we needed it and then he was shocking last weekend. And Sami wasn’t great either. Only front rower that played okay was Bower I thought.
Anyway I have a little bit of faith that he will come out with a bit of fire and step up.
I never thought Sotutu would get a start in this series but thought he may have been a bench option, but they clearly like the Dalton option.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If ST was dumped for Taylor I will not know what to say.
Taylor is missing impact, passes, tackles... seems to have slipped mightily since a few years ago.I'm not so upset about Hoskins, a fine 8 in the making but it is getting to the stage where I worry this ABs setup will give him some bad habits...
Looks like he was “dumped” for Coles given Taylor is in the same spot he has been all series…
Just on Taylor, his attack was okay in Test 1. Thought his throwing and support play was starting to come good. His tight work wasn’t where we needed it and then he was shocking last weekend. And Sami wasn’t great either. Only front rower that played okay was Bower I thought.
Anyway I have a little bit of faith that he will come out with a bit of fire and step up.
I never thought Sotutu would get a start in this series but thought he may have been a bench option, but they clearly like the Dalton option.
Sam/Paps/Ardie didn't work so well.
If Paps AND Akira come on, and Scooter moves, who comes off?
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will not at all be surprised to see Papalii come on at 6 and Ioane come on at 8.
Akira played a chunk at seven with those experimental laws. So Akira to seven, Dalton to 8 and Cane to switch to 6.
Ardie to 12, Mounga to 15, Havili to 10 and RTS to 11/14.
Sure you're joking but I reckon Ardie would have gone ok at 12 with a season or two at the lower level.
Don't know his kicking game but we don't seem to use that at 12. Brief glimpses from Havili excepted.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will not at all be surprised to see Papalii come on at 6 and Ioane come on at 8.
Akira played a chunk at seven with those experimental laws. So Akira to seven, Dalton to 8 and Cane to switch to 6.
Ardie to 12, Mounga to 15, Havili to 10 and RTS to 11/14.
Sure you're joking but I reckon Ardie would have gone ok at 12 with a season or two at the lower level.
Don't know his kicking game but we don't seem to use that at 12. Brief glimpses from Havili excepted.Welcome to ten years ago
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@Machpants can you post for the rest of us?
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/richie-mccaws-legacy-has-painted-a-target-on-the-all-blacks/
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@Machpants can you post for the rest of us?
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/richie-mccaws-legacy-has-painted-a-target-on-the-all-blacks/
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants can you post for the rest of us?
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/richie-mccaws-legacy-has-painted-a-target-on-the-all-blacks/
Bad news if we're playing Oirish or Boks.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If ST was dumped for Taylor I will not know what to say.
Taylor is missing impact, passes, tackles... seems to have slipped mightily since a few years ago.I'm not so upset about Hoskins, a fine 8 in the making but it is getting to the stage where I worry this ABs setup will give him some bad habits...
Looks like he was “dumped” for Coles given Taylor is in the same spot he has been all series…
Just on Taylor, his attack was okay in Test 1. Thought his throwing and support play was starting to come good. His tight work wasn’t where we needed it and then he was shocking last weekend. And Sami wasn’t great either. Only front rower that played okay was Bower I thought.
Anyway I have a little bit of faith that he will come out with a bit of fire and step up.
I never thought Sotutu would get a start in this series but thought he may have been a bench option, but they clearly like the Dalton option.
Sam/Paps/Ardie didn't work so well.
If Paps AND Akira come on, and Scooter moves, who comes off?
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If ST was dumped for Taylor I will not know what to say.
Taylor is missing impact, passes, tackles... seems to have slipped mightily since a few years ago.I'm not so upset about Hoskins, a fine 8 in the making but it is getting to the stage where I worry this ABs setup will give him some bad habits...
Looks like he was “dumped” for Coles given Taylor is in the same spot he has been all series…
Just on Taylor, his attack was okay in Test 1. Thought his throwing and support play was starting to come good. His tight work wasn’t where we needed it and then he was shocking last weekend. And Sami wasn’t great either. Only front rower that played okay was Bower I thought.
Anyway I have a little bit of faith that he will come out with a bit of fire and step up.
I never thought Sotutu would get a start in this series but thought he may have been a bench option, but they clearly like the Dalton option.
Sam/Paps/Ardie didn't work so well.
If Paps AND Akira come on, and Scooter moves, who comes off?
They could finish with
Lock - Whitelock/Retallick
Lock - Barrett
6 - Ioane
7 - Papali’i
8 - Savea -
@Machpants can you post for the rest of us?
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/richie-mccaws-legacy-has-painted-a-target-on-the-all-blacks/
@Bones more Gregor Paul ‘quality’
For 15 years McCaw was told he was a cheat. A brilliant cheat, but still a cheat.
The cloak is real
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make.There is a proof, how do we know they wouldn't have made ABs? Hell look at Isaac Boss people said the same about him, and ignore the fact he turned down AB jersey when selected. I agree Lowe and JGP are better players than they appeared when they left country, and speaks to me of a very good club comp they are in, also shows what I mean in comparing the teams, you can only name NZ players in Irish team. I am disappointed as anyone , but reamain of the opinion we need to look at other teams and how good somw of their players are. All you did was rubbish Lowe and JGP and not actually given them credit for being good players.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
JGP is a vital cog in a team that regularly beats us, as well as many other tier 1 nations. Barely better than Christie, who has achieved....getting on the field? I smell a slight bias....
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I know I harp on about 10s but the test game at the moment is not suited to either of our best 10s. We are missing a game controller. Both BB and RM play off instinct rather than break teams down. RM can break down poor teams but not good ones, which requires better kicking from hand than he has.
It is fair to say that we aren't running an attack from other players for these guys can feed into but also maybe there is an element of having to try and run a game that suits them?
I think we are in some fairly medium/long term strife as we have a generation of 10s and coaches that have grown up emulating a style that isn't effective at the moment given the changes to defensive systems.
Put a DC in this AB side and you'd see a massive difference from his ability to steer us around the park. Even a Cruden would do a better job..We are complaining that our gameplan seems to rely on individual brilliance but then have two 10s that have always played that way.
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I know I harp on about 10s but the test game at the moment is not suited to either of our best 10s. We are missing a game controller. Both BB and RM play off instinct rather than break teams down. RM can break down poor teams but not good ones, which requires better kicking from hand than he has.
It is fair to say that we aren't running an attack from other players for these guys can feed into but also maybe there is an element of having to try and run a game that suits them?
I think we are in some fairly medium/long term strife as we have a generation of 10s and coaches that have grown up emulating a style that isn't effective at the moment given the changes to defensive systems.
Put a DC in this AB side and you'd see a massive difference from his ability to steer us around the park. Even a Cruden would do a better job..We are complaining that our gameplan seems to rely on individual brilliance but then have two 10s that have always played that way.
But who do we have who can fulfill that role?
So we adjust our game plan to match who we have ... ?
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
JGP is a vital cog in a team that regularly beats us, as well as many other tier 1 nations. Barely better than Christie, who has achieved....getting on the field? I smell a slight bias....
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
JGP is a vital cog in a team that regularly beats us, as well as many other tier 1 nations. Barely better than Christie, who has achieved....getting on the field? I smell a slight bias....
And considering we had 50 fullbacks and no wingers in the Maori squad I think Lowe would be a bolted on starter.
