New Zealand under 20

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="588412" data-time="1466015772">
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So far this tournament is turning into a 'mare for Robertson and his pending Crusaders interview.
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He interviewed before leaving NZ but I agree, the performance of the U20s hasn't enhanced Robertson's coaching creds.

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="588415" data-time="1466016154">
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He interviewed before leaving NZ but I agree, the performance of the U20s hasn't enhanced Robertson's coaching creds.
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It's not his first year as U20 coach and he's had success last year. He can blame it on his assistants, one of whom has also applied for the Crusaders gig. Just blame it on Philpott, who probably has been mostly responsible for the failing forward pack. 
 
On the other hand, let's not blame it on Philpott because many Magpies fans will be happy for him to get the Crusaders gig. :bye:

Billy Tell

Luckily Schmidt will rock up as Crusaders coach, and the Highlanders can enjoy their Hammett/Robertson/Philpott triumvirate.

leytonandamanda

Maybe last year his assistants were the making of Robertson and this year we are seeing what he is really like 
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Mofitzy

Could be that this is just a particularly poor side. Which might be a selection issue but with near 100% turnover there is bound to be significant fluctuations in quality over the years.

leytonandamanda

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mofitzy" data-cid="588421" data-time="1466018974">Could be that this is just a particularly poor side. Which might be a selection issue but with near 100% turnover there is bound to be significant fluctuations in quality over the years.</blockquote>
Could be that yeah 
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Frye

Robertson was the forwards coach two years ago when the scrum and lineout was hopeless. At least it was just the scrum this time.
 
I'd say he more likely got lucky last year because of some incredible talent rather than vice versa.

Smithy_NZ

Need a French miracle in the last ten... otherwise we are out.

leytonandamanda

Nz are out as things stand at the moment with South Africa winning and bonus point 
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leytonandamanda

Deffinately out now with South Africa scoring another try 
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leytonandamanda

5 minutes left 
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canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="588418" data-time="1466016849">Luckily Schmidt will rock up as Crusaders coach, and the Highlanders can enjoy their Hammett/Robertson/Philpott triumvirate.</blockquote>ugh

Derm McCrum

The rugby world just shifted slightly on its axis.

Canes4life

The only positive thing about us being bumbled out early is that I don't have to go through another 80 minutes watching garbage like that.
 
The skillset of that team was well below NZ standards. 
 
A few learnings from the competition:
 
Apisai shouldn't have been captain when his replacement Aumua is a far more rounded player.
 
Barrett, Mikaele Tu'u and Stevenson can hold their heads high. 
 
Our Scrum was shithouse.
 
We suck at playing in the rain, however that is no excuse.
 
Maybe a few players left out like Emerson and Umaga Jensen could have made the difference in what was a pretty ordinary backline.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="588418" data-time="1466016849">
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Luckily Schmidt will rock up as Crusaders coach, and the Highlanders can enjoy their Hammett/Robertson/Philpott triumvirate.
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I've never rated Robertson, can hardly string a sentence together.
 
Never sighted at club rugby (too busy surfing probably), preferring to pick his Canterbury sides almost exclusively from Lincoln, Christchurch and Old Boys.
 
I stand by my source that Schmidt has applied for the crusaders job, but I still worry about Riach picking Fatson or Robertson. Mainly so he can point to his "succession plan" and doesn't appear to be admitting to failure. Hopefully the board of directors has more sense than that (although I doubt it)

Derm McCrum

Schmidt applying for the Crusaders job??!! 
Don't be silly - he hasn't any relevant experience. 
Sure he's won nothing of note. 
I'd leave him where he is to be honest. There must be a lot better coaches around.

SammyC

Also, I think it's time for new ideas with our scrummaging
 
Jason Ryan is another disciple of Mike Cron. Who makes no secret of the fact he likes big props (Cron told a friend of mine a few years back that Nepo Laulala was "too small" to ever be a success)
 
Jeez look at guys like Richard Loe and Olo Brown, the best 2 scrummagers I've seen in NZ. Neither is a 6 foot 5 monster, good technique and a strong core go a long way.
 
 
Clarke Dermody or Carl Hoeft would be good

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="588462" data-time="1466026238">
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I've never rated Robertson, can hardly string a sentence together.
 
Never sighted at club rugby (too busy surfing probably), preferring to pick his Canterbury sides almost exclusively from Lincoln, Christchurch and Old Boys.
 
I stand by my source that Schmidt has applied for the crusaders job, but I still worry about Riach picking Fatson or Robertson. Mainly so he can point to his "succession plan" and doesn't appear to be admitting to failure. Hopefully the board of directors has more sense than that (although I doubt it)
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Not that he would/could apply for the role given his current situation but do you think if Cotter were the one applying (essentially Schmidt's resume with a Cantab connection) Raich and co would be more enthusiastic about going in that direction?
 
Is it nepotism or is it about this "succession plan" and senior players from the glory days?

bobily

I'm not sure what we take away from that. This has shown that we need to have props that able to scrummage well, first and foremost... yet we knew that from 2012 and 2013. It also showed that it might be an idea to pick our best team, regardless of their age... yet we knew that from 2012. I don't think that these factors are what lost us this tournament, but they certainly don't help.
 
During the first few years of the JRWC, teams were poorly coached and our backs had all the time in the world, so we could just run rings around them. However, there isn't that space anymore, and the defenses are rushing up, cutting down our options. We've put much more of a focus on conditioning recently, with Robertson trying to put an extra few kgs on all his forwards. And I think this is largely a good move, and has been positive. We can now chuck the ball to a forward, who drives the ball forward, and (sometimes) makes ground. 
However, we don't really seem to be able to do much beyond this, besides giving the backs the ball and just hoping for the best, in the face of a strong defense. It doesn't seem that we are able to build up pressure on attack, phase after phase, unless someone makes a break from broken play. The fact that we are under pressure at every scrum, definitely isn't helping in keeping the pressure on the opposing team.
 
If we're under pressure, I'd like to see us try kicking in behind the other team more often (especially when things are that wet). I'm not saying we don't want to be running with the ball, but when we're under pressure in the rain, it might just be an idea to settle things down a bit. We have players who can kick well (Perofeta, Barrett), and we can put pressure back on the other team with a good chase (just like when Nock kicked and Barrett followed it up and put a big hit on). We have a bit of pace too, and if players like Barrett, Tuitama and Emerson (who should've been picked - did they even give Leger a shot?) can chase hard, we might even be able to get the ball back (particularly if they mix the kicking up a bit, with a few grubbers/chips in behind the attack if they're rushing forward).
 
Another tactic that the All Blacks often use is they stand up in the tackle and get the arms free for an offload. If the supporting player gets the ball past the line of defense, then it is generally pretty hard to stop. I don't know if this team had anyone available who could stand up effectively in the tackle, and offload, but it would probably pay to get them at least trying. They are going to want to make the ABs in a few years, and they'll likely be expected to be able to do this. I guess this is where a stronger midfield might have been useful.
 
As mentioned before, the selections are a bit baffling at times. The coaches would've known we were playing in England, so the decisions to pick props more based on their running ability is a bit bizarre. We didn't even get to see some of our backs with a bit of space, let alone the forwards. It is possible that they thought these guys are more likely to make the All Blacks in the future, though, so picked them for their own development (though many of the props we've picked in the past who have struggled to hold up a scrum haven't even made it to ITM Cup level, yet). There are also the non-selections of the likes of Emerson, Umaga-Jensen and I'd like to throw in Apikotoa too, who has played prop for Wellington, and would likely have been a heck of a lot better than Fidow.
 
For next year, I'd like to see the best team selected, regardless of age. I'd like to see props picked primarily for their scrummaging ability (let's hope Fidow can improve here, because if he does he will be a handful for the opposition), and I'd like to see our team play to the conditions, and handle pressure a lot better, as well as putting pressure back on to the opposing side.
The following players have been involved at some point this year, and are available again next year.
 
1.Pouri Rakete-Stones (not sure if he plays loosehead) 
2.Asafa Aumua 
3.Alex Fidow 
4.Isaia Walker-Leawere 
5.Sam Caird 
6.Luke Jacobson 
7.Dalton Papali'i 
8.Marino Mikaele-Tu'u 
9.Ere Enari 
10.Stephen Perofeta/Orbyn Leger/Josh McKay 
11. 
12.Jordie Barrett 
13. 
14. 
15.Peter Umaga-Jensen
 
When you add the likes of Sevu Reece (wing - played well for Waikato in their first Ranfurly Shield match), Rieko Ioane (unless he is with the All Blacks), Thomas Umaga-Jensen (midfield), Sione Asi (a big, solid prop) and Samisoni Taukei'aho (hooker - came off the bench for Waikato in their RS game) then I think there is good reason to feel a lot more positive about next year's squad.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588472" data-time="1466026926">
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Is it nepotism or is it about this "succession plan" and senior players from the glory days?
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I think it's become about Riach and his "succession plan" 
 
Since hearing the news about Schmidt applying and Robertson being the players choice I haven't heard anything else to be honest. But a couple of media reports have mentioned Fatson as having the inside running, that worries me a lot.
 
I've heard Tabai described as "nice but dim" by guys that know him.
 
 
My choice would be Schmidt followed by Cotter, those other blokes as assistants

The Silver Fern

New Zealand under 20