All Blacks vs Wales Test #2

Rembrandt

I wonder if the desperation to get Naholo into the world cup was due to the selectors worries regarding J Sav? Also, I mentioned this in the match thread but did anyone else notice how much Savea seems to have slimmed down for the Welsh game?, to my eyes he no longer looks deserving of the 'fat' description (I had been drinking though so happy to be proved wrong). Maybe they've gone a bit too hard out on fat loss and that's affected other areas of his game. Getting one's head right is the hardest part though

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588467" data-time="1466026600">
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.
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Good call. Julian Savea needs to fight hard or he'll be the feature subject of an "Exodus 2017" post after the Lions series.
 
I'm not calling time on his test career but his head space seems to have seriously been affected in the last 18 months and his professionalism should be questioned. He was so-so to moderately good at RWC but in my mind it took a disproportionately high effort from the ABs management and staff to get him to that level. You have to question whether it is the best use of their resources to concentrate so much into one guy.
 
He did sign a mega deal last year, along with Retallick, so I presume he's signed up until 2018 or maybe 2019. NZR take a big risk entering into such arrangements with a winger - sometimes the rate of "disruption" and technological advancement is breathtaking. 
 
Let's hope he's not the Kodak or BlockBuster Video of the rugby world.

Provincial Stalwart

Yes, I acknowledge he was awesome in that France QF.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588467" data-time="1466026600">
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.
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Excellent point about the older generation, They were all only at the very top for about half a decade on average, a far cry from many in other positions. Obviously that's still time for all mentioned to have careers ranging from very good to legendary, has Savea done enough to warrant being in the latter category ?
 
A mate of mine works very closely with the Canes and says the difference in attitude towards training between the Savea brothers is vast. He reckons Julian has far more natural talent but Ardie literally works his fucken arse off to compensate.

Chris B.

I think Naholo is still finding his feet at international level, but he's been impressive for the Highlanders coming back from injury. Some of the play in his direction, on Saturday, looked a bit frenetic - as if we were over-anxious to get the ball into his hands ASAP. 
 
Maybe needed to construct things a bit more and create a bit more time and space for him.

Smudge

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="588382" data-time="1466011613">
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Expect the highlander lads en masse for carisbrook.
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I reckon we need the best steppers in the team for Carisbrook - they've got a shitload of weeds and piles of rubble to avoid.
 
<img src="http://www.odt.co.nz/files/u145/the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg" alt="the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg">

JayCee

"There is a lot happening with Jules and we are working away quietly."
 
On a positive though this highlights the beauty of our team environment right now. Who knows what is going on with Savea, but whatever it is, it's all behind closed doors, management are working it through with him, and nobody is being a distraction and bigger than the team.

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Smudge" data-cid="588529" data-time="1466033168">
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I reckon we need the best steppers in the team for Carisbrook - they've got a shitload of weeds and piles of rubble to avoid.
 
<img src="http://www.odt.co.nz/files/u145/the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg" alt="the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg">
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I reckon it'll be alright for cricket season though.

Smudge

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="588536" data-time="1466034102">
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I reckon it'll be alright for cricket season though.
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Tip for the openers: wear a helmet.

kiwiinmelb

The rumors are getting louder there is a bit more going on with Julian than just poor rugby form . 
Devlin has said he has been told what it is , but is not going to reveal , but sounded sympathetic so it musnt be anything scandelous.

Frank

Congrats to Izzy Dagg on fighting his way back.
I didn't think he deserved be in the team for the last couple of years, but his improved form (combined with Savea losing his) warrants his selection.
 
I expect he will make a good fist of it.
If he doesn't the world's best fullback will do okay there.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Frank" data-cid="588555" data-time="1466035820">
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Congrats to Izzy Dagg on fighting his way back.
I didn't think he deserved be in the team for the last couple of years, but his improved form (combined with Savea losing his) warrants his selection.
 
I expect he will make a good fist of it.
If he doesn't the world's best fullback will do okay there.
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Amazing what a proper offseason will do for players. I wonder if the global game will go to a combined season and guarantee everyone a proper break - whatever the season looks like, giving players 3 months off would be great. The NFL has an offseason from February to September -- 7 months!

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="588539" data-time="1466034194">
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The rumors are getting louder there is a bit more going on with Julian than just poor rugby form . 
Devlin has said he has been told what it is , but is not going to reveal , but sounded sympathetic so it musnt be anything scandelous.
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I wonder if it's the same "issues" that were going around a little while ago.

Gunner

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Frank" data-cid="588555" data-time="1466035820">
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Congrats to Izzy Dagg on fighting his way back.
I didn't think he deserved be in the team for the last couple of years, but his improved form (combined with Savea losing his) warrants his selection.
 
I expect he will make a good fist of it.
If he doesn't the world's best fullback will do okay there.
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Yep, agreed.
 
But........
 
I just don't get why they can't keep the worlds best fullback at fullback, and put Dagg on the wing.
Surely he has the skills to do a good job there, just like many fullbacks before him have - see Smith, Jane, NMS, Wilson.

No Quarter

Absolutely stoked to see Dagg selected for his 50th. What a fucking legend, could have easily taken the $$ after the RWC but chose to work his way back into form and is now reaping the rewards. J Savea - take note!
 
Gunner - agree with the sentiment that moving one of our best players out of position to accommodate another is fraught with danger, but in this case Ben Smith is a 100% proven world class right wing. Dagg really isn't, so it does make sense to have Dagg at 15 where is he much more likely to have a good game. We know Ben Smith will carve up from 14.

Gunner

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="588567" data-time="1466036953">
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Gunner - agree with the sentiment that moving one of our best players out of position to accommodate another is fraught with danger, but in this case Ben Smith is a 100% proven world class right wing. Dagg really isn't, so it does make sense to have Dagg at 15 where is he much more likely to have a good game. We know Ben Smith will carve up from 14.
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I can see the logic in that. But still, c'mon moving the best 15 in the world......hmmmmm, I dunno. :think:

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="588570" data-time="1466037758">
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I can see the logic in that. But still, c'mon moving the best 15 in the world......hmmmmm, I dunno. :think:
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yeah, but who else would you play there? they figure that 14 Smith + 15 Dagg is >> 15 Smith + 14 ????

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="588560" data-time="1466036393">
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I wonder if it's the same "issues" that were going around a little while ago.
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I have a feeling it might be, friends in the Police said way more shit went down than was actually made public but I'm not gonna chuck it on an online forum. LEt's just say there were a few family "culture clashes" ( his wife is Arabian )
 
His Aunt teaches at my boys school so a bit close to home to mention shit that may or may not be true.

Gunner

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="588576" data-time="1466038458">
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yeah, but who else would you play there? they figure that 14 Smith + 15 Dagg is >> 15 Smith + 14 ????
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See my post below, from 5 posts above :yes:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="588562" data-time="1466036444">
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Yep, agreed.
 
But........
 
I just don't get why they can't keep the worlds best fullback at fullback, and put Dagg on the wing.
Surely he has the skills to do a good job there, just like many fullbacks before him have - see Smith, Jane, NMS, Wilson.
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nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="588583" data-time="1466038944">
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 just don't get why they can't keep the worlds best fullback at fullback, and put Dagg on the wing.
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I'll agree to disagree then.

I think Dagg on the wing is a major step down. So clearly the three wise men agree with me, that
 
14 Dagg + 15 Smith << 14 Smith + 15 Dagg
 
I don't think Dagg has the skills or speed to be an effective winger. We've converted people before (Kahui in 2011 anyone?), but Dagg's skillset and thumping boot clearly work better from fullback.
 
I'll stick with my point that I think Smith is our best option at 14 at present (given Naholo at 11)

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales Test #2