The Current State of Rugby
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@Victor-Meldrew said in The Current State of Rugby:
Following on from @MajorRage 's post on NH Rugby. The game is huge in Cornwall and a few rugby-types have expressed some real concern about the state of the amateur game.
At the junior level there's a worry that parents are seeing the game as dangerous with the talk about dementia and concussion
Eliminating contact and tackling at the lower age groups is a factor I think
The younger you can learn the fundamentals of any sport, the better your technique will be
Look at something like gymnastics
Learning to tackle properly when the game is slower and the players (and ergo impact) are much smaller would bring through a generation of players who can grow into their bodies and the game
Just like it was when I began playing organised rugby in 1974 (8 years old)
@MiketheSnow You're a similar vintage to me.
We were always coached to "Go low" in the 1970s, and it was only toward the end of my rugby career that the higher wrap tackles became fashionable (and effective).
But, there were still plenty of concussion incidents. Going low means front on tackles with knees pumping and hips -as the article writer acknowledges.
Who gets sent off? - The concussed tackler for poor technique? - Frankly, maybe they should?
I do recall one of the outstanding players in our region having to give up aged 16 due to multiple concussions. I got my nose broken in an aerial collision that was a pure accident - then and now - also under 16s.
It's a game of collisions. There's going to be many injuries and many concussions whatever you do.
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@MiketheSnow You're a similar vintage to me.
We were always coached to "Go low" in the 1970s, and it was only toward the end of my rugby career that the higher wrap tackles became fashionable (and effective).
But, there were still plenty of concussion incidents. Going low means front on tackles with knees pumping and hips -as the article writer acknowledges.
Who gets sent off? - The concussed tackler for poor technique? - Frankly, maybe they should?
I do recall one of the outstanding players in our region having to give up aged 16 due to multiple concussions. I got my nose broken in an aerial collision that was a pure accident - then and now - also under 16s.
It's a game of collisions. There's going to be many injuries and many concussions whatever you do.
@Chris-B said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow You're a similar vintage to me.
We were always coached to "Go low" in the 1970s, and it was only toward the end of my rugby career that the higher wrap tackles became fashionable (and effective).
But, there were still plenty of concussion incidents. Going low means front on tackles with knees pumping and hips -as the article writer acknowledges.
Who gets sent off? - The concussed tackler for poor technique? - Frankly, maybe they should?
I do recall one of the outstanding players in our region having to give up aged 16 due to multiple concussions. I got my nose broken in an aerial collision that was a pure accident - then and now - also under 16s.
It's a game of collisions. There's going to be many injuries and many concussions whatever you do.
It's not tiddlywinks
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Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
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@Tim said in The Current State of Rugby:
@junior Indeed, where are all the articles condemning the missed red cards in the 3rd test?
I don’t know the answer to this question, but I wonder how many actual players are pushing the current regulations with respect to head contact? I ask because they have the most at stake in this issue and yet I hear very little from them. Most people who have strong opinions on this are ex players - fair enough - and pundits.
The latter seem to be the loudest voices in the discussions and the most vociferous in arguing for the harshest sanctions for incidental / accidental head contact. I don’t know whether the former players are advocating for reds in all cases.
I say all this because I would believe in the current approach if it was being driven by those who are most at risk. But it’s not - it’s being driven mainly by the pundits who scream the loudest
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@Victor-Meldrew said in The Current State of Rugby:
Following on from @MajorRage 's post on NH Rugby. The game is huge in Cornwall and a few rugby-types have expressed some real concern about the state of the amateur game.
At the junior level there's a worry that parents are seeing the game as dangerous with the talk about dementia and concussion
Eliminating contact and tackling at the lower age groups is a factor I think
The younger you can learn the fundamentals of any sport, the better your technique will be
Look at something like gymnastics
Learning to tackle properly when the game is slower and the players (and ergo impact) are much smaller would bring through a generation of players who can grow into their bodies and the game
Just like it was when I began playing organised rugby in 1974 (8 years old)
@MiketheSnow that's always been my argument against soccer mom mentality.
Teach them correct techniques when they and opposition are smaller slower and less skilled, it becomes ingrained when they are bigger stronger faster.
When I coached TR jnr, they played rippa the 1st year, by end of that year you could see most wanted to and were ready for tackle,one of the best tacklers in the team was a small guy so most often they were ankle tackles, as he go bigger he could go a bit higher but stomach was his fave target to iit someone.
He, like half the team also played a couple of seasons of league when they were 6 - 8 years old.
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Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all. -
It's really only at the pro level that rugby is in a mess. The game was never meant to be based on power. It is meant to a game for all shapes and sizes to use their sets of skills.
Now it is all about collisions and you wonder why that causes problems.
You can't change the fundamentals as they still apply to grass roots but what can be done is to go back to applying the laws the way they were intended instead of loose interpretations in some desire to make it more of a product.
I'm talking about things like binding. The laws clearly state that a bind is NOT a touch or grab but an arm. That flows through to players joining breakdowns with a touch before a big impact. Duh! -
It's really only at the pro level that rugby is in a mess. The game was never meant to be based on power. It is meant to a game for all shapes and sizes to use their sets of skills.
Now it is all about collisions and you wonder why that causes problems.
You can't change the fundamentals as they still apply to grass roots but what can be done is to go back to applying the laws the way they were intended instead of loose interpretations in some desire to make it more of a product.
I'm talking about things like binding. The laws clearly state that a bind is NOT a touch or grab but an arm. That flows through to players joining breakdowns with a touch before a big impact. Duh!@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
It's really only at the pro level that rugby is in a mess. The game was never meant to be based on power. It is meant to a game for all shapes and sizes to use their sets of skills.
Now it is all about collisions and you wonder why that causes problems.
You can't change the fundamentals as they still apply to grass roots but what can be done is to go back to applying the laws the way they were intended instead of loose interpretations in some desire to make it more of a product.
I'm talking about things like binding. The laws clearly state that a bind is NOT a touch or grab but an arm. That flows through to players joining breakdowns with a touch before a big impact. Duh!Couldn't agree more, I know I been told by a couple of posters to f*** of etc because I say I enjoy the amatuer games etc but I still find it bloody great to watch, and as you say all shapes and sizes getting out there and actually trying to use skill to win games etc. I even find that at U15 level etc you actually really enjoy seeing the skills etc used to try and beat defence!
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Some of the ways 7s is adjudicated might be beneficial. Very little tolerance for going off your feet past the ball for example.
Very little tolerance for high tackles as well but often just a penalty and get going again. Maybe a 5 minute bin would work. Get the game moving.While I'm at it WTF is with these called for drinks breaks? What a joke. Just being used like an NFL timeout.
I hate the endless running on of support staff but this isn't the solution, this is worse. The players don't even need a drink, they just squirt it on themselves and talk tactics while catching their breath.
Based on evidence from the FPC we are going to find the NPC very painful to watch in this regard.
Who are the muppets that think these things up without putting their coaches hats on and thinking how it will be used?
Water on the sidelines, there's plenty of opportunity to grab one if you really need it OR strictly enforce keeping the game moving. Get the staff off the field or get penalised. -
Some of the ways 7s is adjudicated might be beneficial. Very little tolerance for going off your feet past the ball for example.
Very little tolerance for high tackles as well but often just a penalty and get going again. Maybe a 5 minute bin would work. Get the game moving.While I'm at it WTF is with these called for drinks breaks? What a joke. Just being used like an NFL timeout.
I hate the endless running on of support staff but this isn't the solution, this is worse. The players don't even need a drink, they just squirt it on themselves and talk tactics while catching their breath.
Based on evidence from the FPC we are going to find the NPC very painful to watch in this regard.
Who are the muppets that think these things up without putting their coaches hats on and thinking how it will be used?
Water on the sidelines, there's plenty of opportunity to grab one if you really need it OR strictly enforce keeping the game moving. Get the staff off the field or get penalised.@Crucial more stoppages will just alow for bigger less fit and mobile players to be used.
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I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
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@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
Note yellow cards equivalent
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@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
Note yellow cards equivalent
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
Note yellow cards equivalent
That's a work on
It's the consistency and rapidity of decision that's heartening
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@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
Note yellow cards equivalent
That's a work on
It's the consistency and rapidity of decision that's heartening
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't watch League, but auto card if head contact? No protocols just of they go? Might have to go that way
Hoo fucking ray
There is an answer
Note yellow cards equivalent
That's a work on
It's the consistency and rapidity of decision that's heartening
Go back a while and there was an attempt to take away the size and impact by reducing a lot of lesser infringements to free kicks. Under this trial refs were much more likely to ping small ruck infringements which meant a better focus on entry, binding, shoulder charge entry etc. over time the extra speed to the game would have emphasised speed and skill over size as well.
No way said the NH. Can’t have that. We want size and power.
It was more about not wanting to be at a disadvantage as at that time as the skill at speed level in the SH was streets ahead.
Had a chance at a safer game then so forgive me if the current high horse position grates.
We all want player safety. We just think we can achieve it just as well without alienating fans. NH can rely on population to absorb fan number decline. We can’t. -
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all.@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all.yeah, like a lot of teenages in 90's NZ i watched a fair bit of league, but since moving to AUS ive definitely enjoyed AFL?VFL a lot more, i live a few hundred meter from a VFL ground and so can stroll down on a sunday avo, stand a with several hundred others (a few thousand for a big game) in the sun and watch a high level of sport, free flowing, 80% is easy to understand and some old mate will happily explain the other 20%, i can get more types of of supporters gear for my local club than i can NPC or even super rugby and it is only $10 to get in
even Mrs Womble said we should get a membership next year to support the local team...and with that membership we'll get a scarf and cap/beenie etc
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@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all.yeah, like a lot of teenages in 90's NZ i watched a fair bit of league, but since moving to AUS ive definitely enjoyed AFL?VFL a lot more, i live a few hundred meter from a VFL ground and so can stroll down on a sunday avo, stand a with several hundred others (a few thousand for a big game) in the sun and watch a high level of sport, free flowing, 80% is easy to understand and some old mate will happily explain the other 20%, i can get more types of of supporters gear for my local club than i can NPC or even super rugby and it is only $10 to get in
even Mrs Womble said we should get a membership next year to support the local team...and with that membership we'll get a scarf and cap/beenie etc
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all.yeah, like a lot of teenages in 90's NZ i watched a fair bit of league, but since moving to AUS ive definitely enjoyed AFL?VFL a lot more, i live a few hundred meter from a VFL ground and so can stroll down on a sunday avo, stand a with several hundred others (a few thousand for a big game) in the sun and watch a high level of sport, free flowing, 80% is easy to understand and some old mate will happily explain the other 20%, i can get more types of of supporters gear for my local club than i can NPC or even super rugby and it is only $10 to get in
even Mrs Womble said we should get a membership next year to support the local team...and with that membership we'll get a scarf and cap/beenie etc
I personally found it to be a group of extra tall skinny men in clothes that wouldn't cover an anorexic supermodel, bouncing up and down on the hardest ground they could find in a field that was virtually directionless, with no offside anywhere, injured every second weekend.
I do like the umpires's gestures, even if they're a bit Fascist traffic cop giving street directions. Surprised they don't all have handlebar moustaches and wear lederhosen.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all.yeah, like a lot of teenages in 90's NZ i watched a fair bit of league, but since moving to AUS ive definitely enjoyed AFL?VFL a lot more, i live a few hundred meter from a VFL ground and so can stroll down on a sunday avo, stand a with several hundred others (a few thousand for a big game) in the sun and watch a high level of sport, free flowing, 80% is easy to understand and some old mate will happily explain the other 20%, i can get more types of of supporters gear for my local club than i can NPC or even super rugby and it is only $10 to get in
even Mrs Womble said we should get a membership next year to support the local team...and with that membership we'll get a scarf and cap/beenie etc
I personally found it to be a group of extra tall skinny men in clothes that wouldn't cover an anorexic supermodel, bouncing up and down on the hardest ground they could find in a field that was virtually directionless, with no offside anywhere, injured every second weekend.
I do like the umpires's gestures, even if they're a bit Fascist traffic cop giving street directions. Surprised they don't all have handlebar moustaches and wear lederhosen.
@nostrildamus said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Just watching a random non-warriors NRL game. Full stadium - small but full, simple game, but a fair bit of physical confrontation and skill. It's understandable, unlike Rugby, TMO is quick and rare to get involved. I don't think I've seen anyone playing the ref ... and just seen two head contacts with nothing happening.
Honestly, if NRL was on in primtime in NZ, Rugby would really suffer. And I say this as a long term rugby nerd. Right now the game's a bit fucked. NRL may have a simpler sport, but it's far more watchable right now.
Funny mate, when I moved to Aus (in about 1997) I thought I might get into League. but funnily enough it killed any interest I had in game. First year I was there was given some tickets to State of Origin, and actually had to leave as it I found it too almost choreographed or something, I sat there not knowing a hell of a lot about game, but could see exactly what was going to happen seemingly The lack of competition for ball killed it). After that I couldn't even watch game on tv (even though it probably a tv game). I actually watched more games of AFL then league in my 24 years in Aus, and probably onlsy saw a dozen of them.
Though I can understand that some like league etc just not for me at all.yeah, like a lot of teenages in 90's NZ i watched a fair bit of league, but since moving to AUS ive definitely enjoyed AFL?VFL a lot more, i live a few hundred meter from a VFL ground and so can stroll down on a sunday avo, stand a with several hundred others (a few thousand for a big game) in the sun and watch a high level of sport, free flowing, 80% is easy to understand and some old mate will happily explain the other 20%, i can get more types of of supporters gear for my local club than i can NPC or even super rugby and it is only $10 to get in
even Mrs Womble said we should get a membership next year to support the local team...and with that membership we'll get a scarf and cap/beenie etc
I personally found it to be a group of extra tall skinny men in clothes that wouldn't cover an anorexic supermodel, bouncing up and down on the hardest ground they could find in a field that was virtually directionless, with no offside anywhere, injured every second weekend.
I do like the umpires's gestures, even if they're a bit Fascist traffic cop giving street directions. Surprised they don't all have handlebar moustaches and wear lederhosen.
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