The Current State of Rugby
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What do we suggest for refs deciding between fake and genuine injury? One option is that any player being treated for injury or “injury” must go off until next break in play (unless replaced).
@Billy-Tell said in The Current State of Rugby:
What do we suggest for refs deciding between fake and genuine injury? One option is that any playing being treated for injury or “injury” must go off until next break in play (unless treplaced).
Like football. Everyone has to go off and can't return until the next stoppage. These big units couldn't handle playing 80 like the old days when you only got subbed if you were too hurt to continue
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@Billy-Tell said in The Current State of Rugby:
What do we suggest for refs deciding between fake and genuine injury? One option is that any playing being treated for injury or “injury” must go off until next break in play (unless treplaced).
Like football. Everyone has to go off and can't return until the next stoppage. These big units couldn't handle playing 80 like the old days when you only got subbed if you were too hurt to continue
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
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@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@game_film said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders This drives me absolutely nuts.
The players weren’t injured when the ball was in play but the ball goes out and suddenly they’re hurt.
World Rugby need to address it. The ABs were guilty of it last year at the end of a close game when Aumua went down. Everyone does it.
Something like in football when if you receive treatment you go to the sideline and play restarts without you. If it’s a scrum and it’s a front rower then give the opposition a FK. Probably a far better solution than that but it is infuriating to watch. Other leagues wouldn’t tolerate it but Rugby seems to revel in this kind of junk.
Yeah, and water bottles available at the hair way line each side. If you need water that badly, go to the side whilst play carries on
Easiest solution is to allow runners as before but with strict judgement from ref that if they interfere with start of play by being on the field then their team is penalised. If they want to risk running to the middle of the field or not getting out of the way then that's their call. Refs are so slack on time wasting.
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@game_film said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders This drives me absolutely nuts.
The players weren’t injured when the ball was in play but the ball goes out and suddenly they’re hurt.
World Rugby need to address it. The ABs were guilty of it last year at the end of a close game when Aumua went down. Everyone does it.
Something like in football when if you receive treatment you go to the sideline and play restarts without you. If it’s a scrum and it’s a front rower then give the opposition a FK. Probably a far better solution than that but it is infuriating to watch. Other leagues wouldn’t tolerate it but Rugby seems to revel in this kind of junk.
Yeah, and water bottles available at the hair way line each side. If you need water that badly, go to the side whilst play carries on
Easiest solution is to allow runners as before but with strict judgement from ref that if they interfere with start of play by being on the field then their team is penalised. If they want to risk running to the middle of the field or not getting out of the way then that's their call. Refs are so slack on time wasting.
It was even more farcical on Saturday. Play was held up after the water break because a towel had been left on the pitch. A few more seconds gained there
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@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@game_film said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders This drives me absolutely nuts.
The players weren’t injured when the ball was in play but the ball goes out and suddenly they’re hurt.
World Rugby need to address it. The ABs were guilty of it last year at the end of a close game when Aumua went down. Everyone does it.
Something like in football when if you receive treatment you go to the sideline and play restarts without you. If it’s a scrum and it’s a front rower then give the opposition a FK. Probably a far better solution than that but it is infuriating to watch. Other leagues wouldn’t tolerate it but Rugby seems to revel in this kind of junk.
Yeah, and water bottles available at the hair way line each side. If you need water that badly, go to the side whilst play carries on
Easiest solution is to allow runners as before but with strict judgement from ref that if they interfere with start of play by being on the field then their team is penalised. If they want to risk running to the middle of the field or not getting out of the way then that's their call. Refs are so slack on time wasting.
It was even more farcical on Saturday. Play was held up after the water break because a towel had been left on the pitch. A few more seconds gained there
@stodders said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@game_film said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders This drives me absolutely nuts.
The players weren’t injured when the ball was in play but the ball goes out and suddenly they’re hurt.
World Rugby need to address it. The ABs were guilty of it last year at the end of a close game when Aumua went down. Everyone does it.
Something like in football when if you receive treatment you go to the sideline and play restarts without you. If it’s a scrum and it’s a front rower then give the opposition a FK. Probably a far better solution than that but it is infuriating to watch. Other leagues wouldn’t tolerate it but Rugby seems to revel in this kind of junk.
Yeah, and water bottles available at the hair way line each side. If you need water that badly, go to the side whilst play carries on
Easiest solution is to allow runners as before but with strict judgement from ref that if they interfere with start of play by being on the field then their team is penalised. If they want to risk running to the middle of the field or not getting out of the way then that's their call. Refs are so slack on time wasting.
It was even more farcical on Saturday. Play was held up after the water break because a towel had been left on the pitch. A few more seconds gained there
That was over three minutes to set a scrum from a simple knock on. Strangely none of the players required medical attention while the ball was in play. The game is getting worse in this respect and WR think the solution to power athletes trying to win collisions is to card them.
We're on the path to NFL style stoppages.
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@stodders said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@game_film said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders This drives me absolutely nuts.
The players weren’t injured when the ball was in play but the ball goes out and suddenly they’re hurt.
World Rugby need to address it. The ABs were guilty of it last year at the end of a close game when Aumua went down. Everyone does it.
Something like in football when if you receive treatment you go to the sideline and play restarts without you. If it’s a scrum and it’s a front rower then give the opposition a FK. Probably a far better solution than that but it is infuriating to watch. Other leagues wouldn’t tolerate it but Rugby seems to revel in this kind of junk.
Yeah, and water bottles available at the hair way line each side. If you need water that badly, go to the side whilst play carries on
Easiest solution is to allow runners as before but with strict judgement from ref that if they interfere with start of play by being on the field then their team is penalised. If they want to risk running to the middle of the field or not getting out of the way then that's their call. Refs are so slack on time wasting.
It was even more farcical on Saturday. Play was held up after the water break because a towel had been left on the pitch. A few more seconds gained there
That was over three minutes to set a scrum from a simple knock on. Strangely none of the players required medical attention while the ball was in play. The game is getting worse in this respect and WR think the solution to power athletes trying to win collisions is to card them.
We're on the path to NFL style stoppages.
@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
@game_film said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders This drives me absolutely nuts.
The players weren’t injured when the ball was in play but the ball goes out and suddenly they’re hurt.
World Rugby need to address it. The ABs were guilty of it last year at the end of a close game when Aumua went down. Everyone does it.
Something like in football when if you receive treatment you go to the sideline and play restarts without you. If it’s a scrum and it’s a front rower then give the opposition a FK. Probably a far better solution than that but it is infuriating to watch. Other leagues wouldn’t tolerate it but Rugby seems to revel in this kind of junk.
Yeah, and water bottles available at the hair way line each side. If you need water that badly, go to the side whilst play carries on
Easiest solution is to allow runners as before but with strict judgement from ref that if they interfere with start of play by being on the field then their team is penalised. If they want to risk running to the middle of the field or not getting out of the way then that's their call. Refs are so slack on time wasting.
It was even more farcical on Saturday. Play was held up after the water break because a towel had been left on the pitch. A few more seconds gained there
That was over three minutes to set a scrum from a simple knock on. Strangely none of the players required medical attention while the ball was in play. The game is getting worse in this respect and WR think the solution to power athletes trying to win collisions is to card them.
We're on the path to NFL style stoppages.
I'm surprised that Harlequins fake blood stunt a few years ago didn't catch on
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@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
Not unless you are playing in a hot environment
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@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
Not unless you are playing in a hot environment
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
Not unless you are playing in a hot environment
Define hot. It was high 20s at the weekend.
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
Not unless you are playing in a hot environment
Define hot. It was high 20s at the weekend.
@stodders said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
Not unless you are playing in a hot environment
Define hot. It was high 20s at the weekend.
Shit I dunno, I talk in wide brush strokes when I'm Ferning! Like say over 30?
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan which would see players start being a bit smaller again if they had less stoppages (water, scrums, fake injuries)
Refs should not be required to determine an injury being legit or not.
So stoppage, player goes off and unless blood/hia can't come back, will stop these time wasting stoppages we are getting now.
100%, if you're so injured play had to stop, you go off immediately and can't come back on. That'd sort the fake injuries out immediately. And to hell with drinks breaks - if they think it's a H&S issue then schedule a short one like they do in cricket, but TBH 40 mins of rugby shouldn't have you dying of thirst.
@No-Quarter these are elite athletes, they should be able to deal with it 40 mins that has.more than enough stoppages anyway (granted some of those high summer games are different)
Otherwise you wait until you or the opposition score for a drink break, or half/full time.
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@No-Quarter these are elite athletes, they should be able to deal with it 40 mins that has.more than enough stoppages anyway (granted some of those high summer games are different)
Otherwise you wait until you or the opposition score for a drink break, or half/full time.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter these are elite athletes, they should be able to deal with it 40 mins that has.more than enough stoppages anyway (granted some of those high summer games are different)
Otherwise you wait until you or the opposition score for a drink break, or half/full time.
Hydration is important
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@No-Quarter these are elite athletes, they should be able to deal with it 40 mins that has.more than enough stoppages anyway (granted some of those high summer games are different)
Otherwise you wait until you or the opposition score for a drink break, or half/full time.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter these are elite athletes, they should be able to deal with it 40 mins that has.more than enough stoppages anyway (granted some of those high summer games are different)
Otherwise you wait until you or the opposition score for a drink break, or half/full time.
Let's make this easier. Drinks are allowed but they have to be brought on by water boys/girls who are not wired up. Then we all know it is water, not information or instructions, that is being brought on
.Oh, and the medic has to sit on the bench unless needed. Not patrol the sidelines or give instructions at lineouts
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter these are elite athletes, they should be able to deal with it 40 mins that has.more than enough stoppages anyway (granted some of those high summer games are different)
Otherwise you wait until you or the opposition score for a drink break, or half/full time.
Let's make this easier. Drinks are allowed but they have to be brought on by water boys/girls who are not wired up. Then we all know it is water, not information or instructions, that is being brought on
.Oh, and the medic has to sit on the bench unless needed. Not patrol the sidelines or give instructions at lineouts
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@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
Because you may as well have a play book and add timeouts into the mix. Part of rugby's attraction to me is that players are able to solve issues on the pitch. The coaches prepare them, but the players are in control on the pitch.
If I wanted coaches getting involved in every play I'd watch US team sports.
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
Because you may as well have a play book and add timeouts into the mix. Part of rugby's attraction to me is that players are able to solve issues on the pitch. The coaches prepare them, but the players are in control on the pitch.
If I wanted coaches getting involved in every play I'd watch US team sports.
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@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
There has been some absolute piss-taking recently, with certain teams stopping play, and wanting "injury"-assistance and/or water - and listening to the medics/water-carriers quite blatantly passing on messages from coaches.Actually... why not have true "waterboys" (/girls)... kids carrying the water... neutral, no radio kits, just... doing the job description.
"Neutral medics" - I'd also like, but... harder sell. -
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
There has been some absolute piss-taking recently, with certain teams stopping play, and wanting "injury"-assistance and/or water - and listening to the medics/water-carriers quite blatantly passing on messages from coaches.Actually... why not have true "waterboys" (/girls)... kids carrying the water... neutral, no radio kits, just... doing the job description.
"Neutral medics" - I'd also like, but... harder sell.@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
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@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
It's being used as a timeout when a period of play hasn't gone to plan and/or the biggest boys in the team are gassed. Fake an injury, stop play and the momentum the opposition was building, and get some messages from the coach about what to change. In American sports they allow for it and have a maximum number of timeouts each team can use. In rugby there's no structure around it so some teams are just taking the piss with stoppages every time they lose momentum and/or they are gassed. That's just bullshit, either allow teams to take time outs (thus encouraging larger and larger players with bigger collisions) or put a stop to it and keep the game flowing at a fast pace.
Obviously we in NZ prefer the faster game because that's what we've grown up with, whereas teams like SA, England and Ireland would prefer to be able to slow things down when they need to.
WR pays lip service to concussion issues while actively allowing teams that focus on raw power and bigger collisions to prosper.
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@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
Yeah - I think I see where you're coming from.... at the lower levels - coaches can yell shit from the sidelines, so... why can't the same thing somehow happen at test-level...?
And.... the "injury" method, just happens to also bring in stoppages, which is what we all (spectators, at least) want to stop...
So... is there a way of achieving that, without resorting to that ridiculous case of the saffa medic making backline calls from the sideline?
(And that's the problem, really, isn't it? At this level - 'everybody' is going to game whatever system is in place)Edit 1 : maybe the waterboys/girls ARE allowed to be wired to coaches, but... only during play, and only if they don't impact play, and players have to actively dis-engage from play to communicate, at their own risk? But... onside/offside rules? Maybe... the captain is allowed to run off the field to communicate with coaches/etc but only during play - so... it's a handicap to do so?
Edit 2: the more I read this thread, the more I understand how NFL happened. Nearly every "improvement" I can think of,, or that is being trialled... takes us closer to NFL.
