Springboks v All Blacks 2
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@antipodean said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
How can they not be in form? Most of the squad played in a SR Final. They played good rugby. They step into the ABs and they turn to shit. Is that because they're out of form or because the coaching strategy is not working? 23 players can't be bad.
It doesn't require all 23 be bad, just sufficient aren't good enough. And as to whether they played well in SR, one has to keep in mind that was simply us playing ourselves and the Aussies. Flattered to deceive.
Who are the experienced players you propose to pick outside of the ones that are there?
That's broadly my point isn't it? We don't have the depth of 2007 and the experience of 2015. Both of those teams would towel the 2022 version the fuck up.
I'm coming around to the concept the malaise goes deeper than just the head coach.
@antipodean said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@antipodean said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
How can they not be in form? Most of the squad played in a SR Final. They played good rugby. They step into the ABs and they turn to shit. Is that because they're out of form or because the coaching strategy is not working? 23 players can't be bad.
It doesn't require all 23 be bad, just sufficient aren't good enough. And as to whether they played well in SR, one has to keep in mind that was simply us playing ourselves and the Aussies. Flattered to deceive.
Who are the experienced players you propose to pick outside of the ones that are there?
That's broadly my point isn't it? We don't have the depth of 2007 and the experience of 2015. Both of those teams would towel the 2022 version the fuck up.
I'm coming around to the concept the malaise goes deeper than just the head coach.
It definitely does but that is why having a good coaching team is so important!
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Young Canan Moodie call up in Bok squad
Just watched first half of 100th test.
Much the same teams. Boks much more error prone. Puts first half Saturday into proper perspective.
But ABs also. Differences that Jordie and Will J catching high ball (NOT Bridge though), Blackadder most energetic loosie on pitch, and when AB backs cocked up, they just regrouped and kept probing, which led to Jordan try after sensational scrambling by Taylor.
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Young Canan Moodie call up in Bok squad
Just watched first half of 100th test.
Much the same teams. Boks much more error prone. Puts first half Saturday into proper perspective.
But ABs also. Differences that Jordie and Will J catching high ball (NOT Bridge though), Blackadder most energetic loosie on pitch, and when AB backs cocked up, they just regrouped and kept probing, which led to Jordan try after sensational scrambling by Taylor.
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@pakman the Boks had an advantage after WC 2019. Lost only a handful players and have the same coaches. Unfortunately Covid strike but we get there again. Wales gave us a hard series.
@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@pakman the Boks had an advantage after WC 2019. Lost only a handful players and have the same coaches. Unfortunately Covid strike but we get there again. Wales gave us a hard series.
Hearing Marx speak, he's a real exemplar for Springbok rugby. It is clear your squad is 'tight as'.
Something is wrong in AB squad (and not just a coaching issue). It's as if there's some sort of cover up. Very odd.
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@pakman the Boks had an advantage after WC 2019. Lost only a handful players and have the same coaches. Unfortunately Covid strike but we get there again. Wales gave us a hard series.
Hearing Marx speak, he's a real exemplar for Springbok rugby. It is clear your squad is 'tight as'.
Something is wrong in AB squad (and not just a coaching issue). It's as if there's some sort of cover up. Very odd.
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@pakman the Boks had an advantage after WC 2019. Lost only a handful players and have the same coaches. Unfortunately Covid strike but we get there again. Wales gave us a hard series.
Hearing Marx speak, he's a real exemplar for Springbok rugby. It is clear your squad is 'tight as'.
Something is wrong in AB squad (and not just a coaching issue). It's as if there's some sort of cover up. Very odd.
I think they all know Fozz is shit, but they don't want to say because he's a nice guy
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
predictions
Akira pays the price in the forwards. Coles goes from the bench. Otherwise unchanged
Barretts are out, and that is all the changes the coaches can stomach, so Jordan goes to 15 and Reece to the wing. Or BBarrett is fit and plays 15. Either way Mounga starts. Otherwise no changes.
press conference is blah blah do better.
Game plays out much the same.
For Frizell??? Fuck I hope not!
For Frizell??? Fuck I hope not!
Why is Akira the scapegoat? 8 forwards on the pitch and he's the one? He needs a rark up for sure but shit...
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@Joans-Town-Jones The SR results aren’t really the issue. Not playing them in my view is definitely a contributing factor to how our players play today and their experience (or lack of it). If they’re not having those experiences against different styles, players and patterns, watching video or running simulations in training only gets you so far. There’s no replacement for a body of real work on the paddock in game situations.
And if you stuffed up against the Bulls one week, you got a shot against the Sharks later in the season who had very similar style but slightly different patterns. It’s about building muscle memory.
@ACT-Crusader so when do the NH club sides play NZ teams? They seem to do alright recently without playing us on a consistant basis.
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I've never felt more pessimistic before a test match in my life.
Any physical edge we had in the past seems gone. Same for our conditioning, if anything we seem behind a few teams now.
The only thing left is skills and they seem to have deserted us as well. We don't currently do anything better then anyone else in the world.
Without the boks having a shocker. I can't see where we can find an edge.
Please someone give me some hope.
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@Mattasaurus What did he say?
About 5:50 was key part. But the whole interview is agood listen
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About 5:50 was key part. But the whole interview is agood listen
@Mattasaurus for once The Breakdown was a half-decent watch instead of the usual fluff piece. Isa Nacewa was a good addition.
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@Mattasaurus for once The Breakdown was a half-decent watch instead of the usual fluff piece. Isa Nacewa was a good addition.
@KiwiMurph said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Mattasaurus for once The Breakdown was a half-decent watch instead of the usual fluff piece. Isa Nacewa was a good addition.
Jeff and John weren't there.
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I've never felt more pessimistic before a test match in my life.
Any physical edge we had in the past seems gone. Same for our conditioning, if anything we seem behind a few teams now.
The only thing left is skills and they seem to have deserted us as well. We don't currently do anything better then anyone else in the world.
Without the boks having a shocker. I can't see where we can find an edge.
Please someone give me some hope.
@mooshld yeah it’s rare territory, I can’t recall going into a test with this level of pessimism as well , and I’m just about to turn 60 .
Even we went through that period of not holding the bledisloe , I still went into each game believing.
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it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
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it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
kick a lot
Get Jordie to do the line kicks, for a start!
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it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
@Duluth it's like all the good stuff they were selected on, has been removed.
As a group, these guys are all so far out of form it isnt funny, no clear heads impacting decisions, execution of basics and just flow on to all aspects of play.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
@Duluth said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
yes, our depth is really weird
we are this mix of really flat, and then guys out the back like 7s. But it is really disjointed, and if we go to that guy out the back, we're not really sure what to do next, someone hesitates, and everything breaks down (8m behind the gain line).
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
@Duluth said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
For sure. A super flat backline vs a barely onside rush defence? What do they think will happen!!!
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@Duluth said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
it feels like we are at that point where, if it was lower levels, you just go back to basics. Shit hasn't been going right, your patterns are gone, everything is muddled, and the finger pointing starts.
A good coach chucks the play book out for a week and says "fuck it boys, this week it's basics". Smash on to the ball. Play narrower. kick a lot. Focus on the set piece.
Take all the cloud and doubt out of the players heads, and just play code.We won't of course, we'll try to do the same shit "but better" but if ever i saw a squad that needed to clear their heads it is this one.
I'd like to see us play a little bit deeper like the SR sides do. The players are used to it, they got selected playing that style
For sure. A super flat backline vs a barely onside rush defence? What do they think will happen!!!
@canefan thing is, a disciplined rush defence can get away with being slightly off side with the whole line moving together, all standing a foot off-side when they are all in sync, the Irish line is impressive to watch in that regard.
