All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@chimoaus isn’t it interesting that some players didn’t get game time off the bench. Not sure what the point of giving Mathewson 3 minutes at the end achieved…
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@chimoaus isn’t it interesting that some players didn’t get game time off the bench. Not sure what the point of giving Mathewson 3 minutes at the end achieved…
Yeah, the Aussies only used 3 of their 7 subs. Their prop and hooker played 80 minutes.
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Yeah Frizell's performance is being overhyped. I guess compared to his previous 20 odd truly awful appearances it was a big step up, but still far below the best Akira has shown in black. As already said, the tactics of the forwards under Ryan was the big change from previous tests. The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space. Rugby is a pretty simple game, and I'm hopeful Ryan and Schmidt are helping simplify things across the park, whereas the previous coaches were trying a gameplan that was too complicated and putting our players under pressure trying to implement it.
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Also, anything less than absolutely stuffing the Argies at home is completely unacceptable. I'm still really dirty about our first ever loss to them, that was unforgivable shit, Foster is the luckiest man alive to still be in charge after that.
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Yeah Frizell's performance is being overhyped. I guess compared to his previous 20 odd truly awful appearances it was a big step up, but still far below the best Akira has shown in black. As already said, the tactics of the forwards under Ryan was the big change from previous tests. The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space. Rugby is a pretty simple game, and I'm hopeful Ryan and Schmidt are helping simplify things across the park, whereas the previous coaches were trying a gameplan that was too complicated and putting our players under pressure trying to implement it.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game.
especially when the oppositon is using an effective rush defence.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
That can also stem from the work of the forwards. At the speed that test teams need to play there would have to be a fair bit of anticipation. If the ball presentation is a little bit slow, that delays the clearance which has the first receiver a bit ahead of where they want to be, under pressure with the supporting backs too flat and also under pressure.
Forwards love to claim that they decide if the game is won and backs by how much. They need to own their part in the backs not operating well. (which I think they did) -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord?
Well it was completely different from the regular NZ depth he stood at for the Blues. It wasn't just his depth, it was the alignment further out too
I'm hoping it was an innovation from Mooar and has disappeared with his job
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
That can also stem from the work of the forwards. At the speed that test teams need to play there would have to be a fair bit of anticipation. If the ball presentation is a little bit slow, that delays the clearance which has the first receiver a bit ahead of where they want to be, under pressure with the supporting backs too flat and also under pressure.
Forwards love to claim that they decide if the game is won and backs by how much. They need to own their part in the backs not operating well. (which I think they did)@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
That can also stem from the work of the forwards. At the speed that test teams need to play there would have to be a fair bit of anticipation. If the ball presentation is a little bit slow, that delays the clearance which has the first receiver a bit ahead of where they want to be, under pressure with the supporting backs too flat and also under pressure.
Forwards love to claim that they decide if the game is won and backs by how much. They need to own their part in the backs not operating well. (which I think they did)Exactly Crucial, when you set a backline, and forwards give you the ball a couple of yards further up the field, generally you have then got more depth, and the biggest also is opposition can't operate a rush defence because they are retrteating to keep onside.
Lol well how I see it, real believer rugby is a lot easier on front foor ball. -
Frizell played well, especially with his link game, but I'm not convinced by his defence. He gave away two maul penalties and made no impact there.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Frizell played well, especially with his link game, but I'm not convinced by his defence. He gave away two maul penalties and made no impact there.
I agree, Frizell was very effective in that link work.
On the defensive side, you can see why there was an attraction to play Scooter at 6 because he’s pretty solid in the maul defence plus the LO body. But he doesn’t really have the link game, he’s more just carry wide of the ruck to draw in defenders.
I think if Ioane can change his body height in ball carrying he would be far more effective.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord?
Well it was completely different from the regular NZ depth he stood at for the Blues. It wasn't just his depth, it was the alignment further out too
I'm hoping it was an innovation from Mooar and has disappeared with his job
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord?
Well it was completely different from the regular NZ depth he stood at for the Blues. It wasn't just his depth, it was the alignment further out too
I'm hoping it was an innovation from Mooar and has disappeared with his job
To me that had Fozzie’s fingerprints all over it and is what we saw at the Chiefs and Waikato.
My concern with Beaudie’s form is the lack of variation and his kicking. For me that doesn’t have much to do with tactics or gameplan (or lack of). He’s our second most experienced back in the squad, so has seen it all and has been very effective in reading the defence. Even his Blues form this year was very up and down in my view.
He’s one of my favourite rugby players, so it’s hard seeing him not being as effective or at the very least play to unleash our outsides.
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The all blacks have been playing a simple game plan, I'm surprised to see people talking about it being complicated. Our plan is to stay flat and use our 'superior skills' to get around the rush defence. It really is pretty much the same since a fair way back. And it doesn't work anymore. It's not that Beaudy wants to be there, it was the game plan. And finally the penny had dropped with foster that what won the 15 cup doesn't work now.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord?
Well it was completely different from the regular NZ depth he stood at for the Blues. It wasn't just his depth, it was the alignment further out too
I'm hoping it was an innovation from Mooar and has disappeared with his job
To me that had Fozzie’s fingerprints all over it and is what we saw at the Chiefs and Waikato.
My concern with Beaudie’s form is the lack of variation and his kicking. For me that doesn’t have much to do with tactics or gameplan (or lack of). He’s our second most experienced back in the squad, so has seen it all and has been very effective in reading the defence. Even his Blues form this year was very up and down in my view.
He’s one of my favourite rugby players, so it’s hard seeing him not being as effective or at the very least play to unleash our outsides.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
My concern with Beaudie’s form is the lack of variation and his kicking.
You'd think he would have improved these aspects of his game by now.
The fact that he has rocket shoes has allowed him not to focus on it as much.
For that matter, both him and Mounga have work to do in that area. -
Some quite amazing stats hereabout just how rare it is in the modern game for the ABs to field the same starting side twice in a row.
- first time the same group of players have been named to run out wearing Nos 1 to 15 in two consecutive All Blacks tests since the second test against France at Sky Stadium in Wellington in June 2018 – 50 matches ago.
- third time a starting XV has been repeated since 2012 – 133 matches ago (Hansen era)
- seventh time one has been repeated since 2004 – 236 matches ago (Henry era)
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Some quite amazing stats hereabout just how rare it is in the modern game for the ABs to field the same starting side twice in a row.
- first time the same group of players have been named to run out wearing Nos 1 to 15 in two consecutive All Blacks tests since the second test against France at Sky Stadium in Wellington in June 2018 – 50 matches ago.
- third time a starting XV has been repeated since 2012 – 133 matches ago (Hansen era)
- seventh time one has been repeated since 2004 – 236 matches ago (Henry era)
@Crucial id love to see those kinds of stats put against all the other top teams, see if thats normal
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
I'm still wondering about that - Beauden has been standing super flat which cuts down his ability to see the space wider as he's under pressure from the get go. It also nullifies his running game. Just really bad tactics that utilises none of this strengths - surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord? Or probably more likely he was being told to stand flat as part if the teams tactics, which changed in that Ellis Park test along with the different tactics from the forwards.
Yeah look, obviously I hold a candle for BB, but it's not as if RM has only just now been given a shot. He started a heap of tests at 10 during the previous 3 years. Ultimately if he's better then sweet, but it's ridiculous to make claims based on one performance when the team (and particularly the forwards) had clearly changed things up and was playing simpler and much smarter rugby.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Frizell played well, especially with his link game, but I'm not convinced by his defence. He gave away two maul penalties and made no impact there.
I agree, Frizell was very effective in that link work.
On the defensive side, you can see why there was an attraction to play Scooter at 6 because he’s pretty solid in the maul defence plus the LO body. But he doesn’t really have the link game, he’s more just carry wide of the ruck to draw in defenders.
I think if Ioane can change his body height in ball carrying he would be far more effective.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Frizell played well, especially with his link game, but I'm not convinced by his defence. He gave away two maul penalties and made no impact there.
I agree, Frizell was very effective in that link work.
On the defensive side, you can see why there was an attraction to play Scooter at 6 because he’s pretty solid in the maul defence plus the LO body. But he doesn’t really have the link game, he’s more just carry wide of the ruck to draw in defenders.
I think if Ioane can change his body height in ball carrying he would be far more effective.
As long as he gets some tips from Ardie he’ll go ok.
