The Current State of Rugby
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after watching some club rugby and some NPC over the weekend....i feel better. "Rugby" is still good....its just to top level thats suffering...so im going to watch more club/NPC/1st XV...simple
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
after watching some club rugby and some NPC over the weekend....i feel better. "Rugby" is still good....its just to top level thats suffering...so im going to watch more club/NPC/1st XV...simple
Yep kiwi, come and join me mate, it reminds you why a lot of us love the game so much. Well it does for me anyway.
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Slightly segueing to The Current State of the Rugby In New Zealand.
The story about Addington Stadium not selling out (yet) for All Blacks test in 400k Christchurch (already being discussed in the match thread).
There will be several factors and explanations.
At a Chch level:- The temporary stadium.
- Plus the numpty coach cuckooing his way into the job which should actually be their local hero's rightful place.
- The weather.
At an NZ level.
- Decline of broadcasting in NZ and no shared culture.
- The night rugby booze culture leaving the next generation at home (since 20 years ago) playing xbox until bed at 9 while Dad commits to an 11pm homecoming and gets a night out pissed with his mates.
- Too much All Blacks level concentration, disengaged public for the other months, breaking a century of habits, culture.
- Terrible in-stadium atmosphere., the DJ destroying the (admittedly limited ) active fan engagement .
At a state of the game level.
- Almost entirely the red cards.
- But also some of the other rules and trends, but that is more at the anorak level, not the masses.
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On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
-
Slightly segueing to The Current State of the Rugby In New Zealand.
The story about Addington Stadium not selling out (yet) for All Blacks test in 400k Christchurch (already being discussed in the match thread).
There will be several factors and explanations.
At a Chch level:- The temporary stadium.
- Plus the numpty coach cuckooing his way into the job which should actually be their local hero's rightful place.
- The weather.
At an NZ level.
- Decline of broadcasting in NZ and no shared culture.
- The night rugby booze culture leaving the next generation at home (since 20 years ago) playing xbox until bed at 9 while Dad commits to an 11pm homecoming and gets a night out pissed with his mates.
- Too much All Blacks level concentration, disengaged public for the other months, breaking a century of habits, culture.
- Terrible in-stadium atmosphere., the DJ destroying the (admittedly limited ) active fan engagement .
At a state of the game level.
- Almost entirely the red cards.
- But also some of the other rules and trends, but that is more at the anorak level, not the masses.
-
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Ah, ok
I was about to elaborate, but was wondering if there was a venue clash.
Porirua Park. Rather than The Caketin. A suburban club ground, with presumably free admission. etc etc
Because, after watching this, I then saw .........
Then I saw highlights of South Canterbury playing at Temuka, rather than at Timaru. Admittedly a good looking crowd and atmosphere at a pretty looking venue, but I wonder if it was paid admission?
I then saw highlights of Wairarapa Bush playing 'home' at Palmerston North as a curtain raiser to an NPC game as the sky cameras already set up., assessed as being a better option than playing a game at home in front of paying spectators.
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It's about now. When I look at the double whammy of poor NPC crowds AS WELL AS poor All Blacks test crowds being played in the same window as the NPC.
I then think back to the first decade of professional rugby. When the calendar fitted together, Super 12, Test window, NPC. With no overlap and fantastic crowds for all of them.
Then think about some of the decisions.
Expanding to Super 14.
Expanding the Tri-Nations to 3 tests each. (eventually a moot quibble once Argentina added, as that expansion meant same amount of games anyway)
The 3rd Bledisloe.
Out-of-window revenue sharing tests.Those above all ate into the NPC and left it as the empty carcass it is today.
They could all be justified at the time, mostly by explaining how they kept top All Blacks in the NZRU central contracting system in face of increased overseas pressure.
But. now .....
While the NPC is shadow of its former self.
So are home All Blacks tests (Even Nelson and New Plymouth can get home test matches FFS, main centres not selling out).
So is Super Rugby, well before the covid reset. It declined in NZ from the 2007 R & R decision, I think. Not something I recognised at the time as being as pivotal as it was.It's the worst of all 3 worlds, now. Rather than 1 world sacrificed for the successful health of the other 2 worlds.
God knows how you fix that. Actually, I don't think you can.
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It would be fantastic, but impossible, to work out the long term economics of it all, And when the curves meet and inverse.
To put it into context. A crowd of 16 to 20 k at Christchurch in late August/early September. That is actually a fairly standard result .... if it was 2003, and it was an NPC match.
I think there was one SANZAR TV deal that was fantastic, way overpaid-for during one of the media platform expansion wars, based on the expansions I lament above. So, it would actually take quite a few more years, at my guess, before the beneficial economics of that mistaken expansions to be totally wiped out. But, it would appear it is coming at some stage based on trends.
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@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Ah, ok
I was about to elaborate, but was wondering if there was a venue clash.
Porirua Park. Rather than The Caketin. A suburban club ground, with presumably free admission. etc etc
Because, after watching this, I then saw .........
Then I saw highlights of South Canterbury playing at Temuka, rather than at Timaru. Admittedly a good looking crowd and atmosphere at a pretty looking venue, but I wonder if it was paid admission?
I then saw highlights of Wairarapa Bush playing 'home' at Palmerston North as a curtain raiser to an NPC game as the sky cameras already set up., assessed as being a better option than playing a game at home in front of paying spectators.
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Ah, ok
I was about to elaborate, but was wondering if there was a venue clash.
Porirua Park. Rather than The Caketin. A suburban club ground, with presumably free admission. etc etc
Because, after watching this, I then saw .........
Then I saw highlights of South Canterbury playing at Temuka, rather than at Timaru. Admittedly a good looking crowd and atmosphere at a pretty looking venue, but I wonder if it was paid admission?
I then saw highlights of Wairarapa Bush playing 'home' at Palmerston North as a curtain raiser to an NPC game as the sky cameras already set up., assessed as being a better option than playing a game at home in front of paying spectators.
Possibly might have something to do with providing more exposure to a wider television audience for their sponsors or maybe their major sponsor might have a lot of clients in Palm Nth that they wanted to entertain.
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal. -
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
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@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
Workday. Beervana never used to have these ticketed sessions. A ticket at the door allowed entry for the whole day and used to run Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, and it was about trying the beer not consuming as much as possible.
You could do a lunchtime, go back to work for a meeting, go back for a couple more etc. -
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
Workday. Beervana never used to have these ticketed sessions. A ticket at the door allowed entry for the whole day and used to run Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, and it was about trying the beer not consuming as much as possible.
You could do a lunchtime, go back to work for a meeting, go back for a couple more etc.@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
Workday. Beervana never used to have these ticketed sessions. A ticket at the door allowed entry for the whole day and used to run Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, and it was about trying the beer not consuming as much as possible.
You could do a lunchtime, go back to work for a meeting, go back for a couple more etc.Going back after a 13% stout might be hard work
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@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
Workday. Beervana never used to have these ticketed sessions. A ticket at the door allowed entry for the whole day and used to run Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, and it was about trying the beer not consuming as much as possible.
You could do a lunchtime, go back to work for a meeting, go back for a couple more etc.Going back after a 13% stout might be hard work
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
On this subject, sort of.
I saw highlights of Wellington NPC game. Played at Porirua Park. Rather than caketin.
Beervana right? I mean, if you made me choose between Rugby and Beer, I'd shoot you, but can udnerstand one weekend
Pretty easy decision for me, Beervana fucken rocked. Outstanding fun as always.
The Cake Tin woulda got about 5 thousand for that game in the shitty conditions if they were lucky.
I think the comments were more about allowing a scheduling clash. Agree that the Caketin is a shit venue for small draw games but it is better than Porirua for players and spectators alike.
Caketin is also a shit venue for Beervana IMO.
Back in the day it was in the town hall. Less beards. Added bonus of being able to pop in and out during working hours due to central location.
Back to the rugby and I ended up going to JC Stadium for the FPC game. Drove there and back. Had it been at the Caketin I could have caught the train and would have spent some money on a few beers plus some food to go with it. A shitty hotdog from a caravan didn’t appeal.Yeah we went to Brewday at the TSB. That was a good spot but the cake tin works too. While you’re at Beervana why would you feel the need to pop out ? That cuts into beer time which makes no sense to me.
Workday. Beervana never used to have these ticketed sessions. A ticket at the door allowed entry for the whole day and used to run Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, and it was about trying the beer not consuming as much as possible.
You could do a lunchtime, go back to work for a meeting, go back for a couple more etc.Going back after a 13% stout might be hard work
It was but pacing yourself is an art and drinking imperials is a road to cutting yourself short.
I made that mistake at a beer fest in London one evening. Was going along at a good pace with a plan but decided to stop for a feed. Stupidly asked the crew at WildBeer to give me a full glass of their recommendation to have with the food. It turned out to be a killer and I could see ahead to a “how do I get home” situation.
Tried a handful more and bailed while I could. -
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fascinating
Obviously knows what he's doing
“When you are trying to build tribalism and you have hibernation, you get passive fans rather than engaged fans. The AFL has done an incredible job of doubling the action off the field as soon as the action on the field stops."
Reminded me of Adelaide, 2003. A week or two before the RWC double-header Saturday/Sunday, there were banners up all over the city promoting it.
90% of the sport pages were about the AFL draft.
That's the power of AFL, combined with the power of Adelaide seeking relevance with Victoria.
