All Blacks v Pumas 1
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Yeah cheeseboard my mind is in a spin as well
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@Steve another record looming?
@The-Docter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve another record looming?
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Last week I posted that if South Africa had started their best front row then they would have dominated set piece (and therefore won). A lot of players got unrealistic ratings by playing against the shit SA front row.
Congratulations to Argentina and their coach. Hardworking, play as a team and play to their strengths.
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Other countries commentators used to quip that anyone could coach the All Blacks and win.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Argentina lost to Scotland 8 weeks ago.
With Scotland's stars on holiday
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Argentina lost to Scotland 8 weeks ago.
With Scotland's stars on holiday
Scotland have got stars ?
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@Stag said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph did you blink and miss the Crusaders destroying the Blues line out, in a final, with Taylor throwing in the ball…
Codie had nothing to do with the Crusaders stealing all the Blues lineouts
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Stag said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph did you blink and miss the Crusaders destroying the Blues line out, in a final, with Taylor throwing in the ball…
Codie had nothing to do with the Crusaders stealing all the Blues lineouts
We went 11/11 on our own ball that night
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Argentina lost to Scotland 8 weeks ago.
With Scotland's stars on holiday
Scotland have got stars ?
@MN5 only for two weeks of summer
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Argentina lost to Scotland 8 weeks ago.
With Scotland's stars on holiday
Scotland have got stars ?
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Argentina lost to Scotland 8 weeks ago.
With Scotland's stars on holiday
Scotland have got stars ?
Yeah, Finn Hogg is his name, I think. Nickname Watson
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
Again... change that factor ...
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
Again... change that factor ...
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
Again... change that factor ...
Bollox, Arg got stung with some howlers as well. It went both ways. Arg dealt with it, our lot couldn't
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
Maybe, there really isn't a huge amount of depth though?
I still don't understand the early continual benching of Saminsoni given Taylor is still having an abysmal run? Fitness issues? He looked fine to me.The worst thing is the same errors keep repeating, not being able to play to the ref being one of them.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
Maybe, there really isn't a huge amount of depth though?
I still don't understand the early continual benching of Saminsoni given Taylor is still having an abysmal run? Fitness issues? He looked fine to me.The worst thing is the same errors keep repeating, not being able to play to the ref being one of them.
I think whatever about the depth, we have had 4 or 5 years now of picking what we HAVE got out of position/poorly selected.
Rieko is the 11.
Jordan is the FB
Give me an 8 at 8 and a 7 at 7.We have been fucking around with Barrett brothers at 10,15,14, wingers at centre, 7's at 8. Locks at 6. Dual playmakers.
Hooking the captain at 60 minutes on more than one occasion.
Its a tacit admission he isn't the right captain then.
Its a dogs breakfast of running a team.
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@The-Docter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve Poreteta had a run
A nice side step run beating numerous players from the sideline bench to the middle of the park where the ball didn’t come near him.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
A nice side step run beating numerous players from the sideline bench to the middle of the park where the ball didn’t come near him.
Difficult when the ball can't even leave the lineout.
I think @antipodean commented above about Jordan not beating a single defender - TBH it would help if the inside ball did enough work to create space. Tonight the Argies were reading the attack well because it is basic as shit, 2nd-man dropoff pass stuff.
Test rugby has lately a dearth of creative set piece play due in part to improved defences. I think it is time some smart rugby people figured out how to bring it back.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
Again... change that factor ...
@booboo ref was so so, but poor discipline. Mentioned at halftime by one of the muppets, but not fixed in second half
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
Again... change that factor ...
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
I thought a couple were a bit rough on the ABs. But then, your hooker detatched from the maul for his try, so....
I like that the ref was pretty strict on latching player going to deck - and fairly consistent.
Again... change that factor ...
Or be good enough that a couple of decisions aren't in frame.
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Well, before the match I said Argentine were a good side playing well and I'd be happy with a good, solid win. One out of three would have been good...
The whole team started well and there were some good touches and progress (I liked the way we kept it simple to try and regain momentum) but as the game went on, the same old problems we've seen for the last 5-6 years came into the foreground - stupid mistakes by senior players, lack of patience and a creeping collective terror of minimal time left to win the game.
Without re-watching the game, it seemed to me that apart from the scrums and a maul or two, the forwards went backwards from last week. The breakdown work was ineffective and the discipline was poor. Taylor was truly awful though the lineout jumpers and captain deserve some of the blame as well, as the co-ordination was poor - particularly on the last AB lineout throw. The swapping of the front row was dumb or mis-timed, but the elephant in the room was how poor the replacements actually were at the breakdown. They are all Crusaders so used to working together so you have to question their preparation for the game.
Jordie made metres on attack but that was about it, Clarke and Jordan never really hit their straps and Reiko was a shadow of his Ellis Park self. Mo'unga was pretty awful at times and looked to have the yips with the boot. Havili was solid without being spectacular. The whole attack looked slow, one-dimensional and lacking in penetration. Yet no-one played badly - it was either a poor attack plan and/or poor analysis of Argentinian defence.
Buggered if I know what the problems are, but it's pretty dumb to blame it all on Foster. Last week it was all about Jason Ryan getting credit for the forwards improvement and this week they seem to have regressed. Ditto Joe Schmidt on attack and analysis. I do, however, question the effectiveness of the AB leadership group. Are they too powerful? Are they seeing the on-field issues as they occur and addressing them or do they get the collective yips?
My preferred solution after the Ireland fiasco was to sack Foster and replace him (either Schmidt or Robertson or ANO) and give the new bloke 8-9 games to demonstrate improvement and, if not, then a full scale review after the EOYT to see what the issues really are to fix what can be fixed before RWC2023. It seemed to me the best mix of possible progress and risk management. Sadly, the first part of that ship has sailed, but there's still the option for the second bit.
The clusterfuck of omnishambles
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@Machpants can’t see Porofeta; or Cane, in the highlights
