Super Rugby 2023
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too early?
Donald seemed to be hinting the chiefs
What NZ team plays an Aust team twice. And which team?
As MP play the FD twice another team must also play an Aussie team twiceCanes play Chiefs, Blues and MP twice
MP play Canes, FD and Crusaders twice
Chiefs play Highlanders, Hurricanes and Crusaders twice
Blues play Canes Crusaders and Highlanders twice
Crusaders play MP, Blues and Chiefs twice
Highlanders play Blues, Chiefs and ? twice -
What NZ team plays an Aust team twice. And which team?
As MP play the FD twice another team must also play an Aussie team twiceCanes play Chiefs, Blues and MP twice
MP play Canes, FD and Crusaders twice
Chiefs play Highlanders, Hurricanes and Crusaders twice
Blues play Canes Crusaders and Highlanders twice
Crusaders play MP, Blues and Chiefs twice
Highlanders play Blues, Chiefs and ? twice -
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Highlanders play the Force twice.
Its not a bad idea. Although the NZ team that gets to play an Aussie team twice will have a slight advantage if this is continued into the future. And it might impact on the gate revenue slightly
edit on 2nd thoughts it makes little difference. Instead of playing MP they play an Aussie side instead
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@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Highlanders play the Force twice.
Its not a bad idea. Although the NZ team that gets to play an Aussie team twice will have a slight advantage if this is continued into the future. And it might impact on the gate revenue slightly
edit on 2nd thoughts it makes little difference. Instead of playing MP they play an Aussie side instead
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@Winger every team not playing every other team the same number of times definitely undermines the comp...but has been that way for ages, like years we've had to play the crusaders twice like the chief will do next year
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger every team not playing every other team the same number of times definitely undermines the comp...but has been that way for ages, like years we've had to play the crusaders twice like the chief will do next year
it doesn't really. The NRL has it. The AFL has it. They have shit teams, they have good teams. Sometimes you get a good draw. Sometimes you get a tough draw. And your draw may end up harder or easier than it looked at the start of the season as teams are often better/worse than expectation.
In the end the best team wins the comp. Draw "inequalities" are generally the domain of losing fans.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger every team not playing every other team the same number of times definitely undermines the comp...but has been that way for ages, like years we've had to play the crusaders twice like the chief will do next year
it doesn't really. The NRL has it. The AFL has it. They have shit teams, they have good teams. Sometimes you get a good draw. Sometimes you get a tough draw. And your draw may end up harder or easier than it looked at the start of the season as teams are often better/worse than expectation.
In the end the best team wins the comp. Draw "inequalities" are generally the domain of losing fans.
@mariner4life both those comps and america sports that also have "uneven" draws all have larger draws, more games, so each game is a smaller percent of your season so more chance to even out, things like the AFL and American sports also have drafts specifically designed to give teams at the bottom of the ladder one year and chance to improve the next year
Super rugby is a short season compared to those and so, in my opinion, the unevenness can effect things, the example ive seen come up before is the sharks making the final after only playing i think 3 of the NZ teams and then getting a hiding
but...i did say that's the way its been for a while and every team will have "good" and "bad" draws from years to year
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger every team not playing every other team the same number of times definitely undermines the comp...but has been that way for ages, like years we've had to play the crusaders twice like the chief will do next year
it doesn't really. The NRL has it. The AFL has it. They have shit teams, they have good teams. Sometimes you get a good draw. Sometimes you get a tough draw. And your draw may end up harder or easier than it looked at the start of the season as teams are often better/worse than expectation.
In the end the best team wins the comp. Draw "inequalities" are generally the domain of losing fans.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger every team not playing every other team the same number of times definitely undermines the comp...but has been that way for ages, like years we've had to play the crusaders twice like the chief will do next year
it doesn't really. The NRL has it. The AFL has it. They have shit teams, they have good teams. Sometimes you get a good draw. Sometimes you get a tough draw. And your draw may end up harder or easier than it looked at the start of the season as teams are often better/worse than expectation.
In the end the best team wins the comp. Draw "inequalities" are generally the domain of losing fans.
Just looking at the draw. The Crusaders have probably got the best draw of NZ teams. Followed by the highlander. Chiefs is not great with the last game an away game vs Force (although they might be able to rest and leave at home their best players) The worse is the Canes with three tough games to finish with 2 away.
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and for all that, the best team will win the comp
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As long as there is a transparent, systematic process in place to determine who plays who twice each season, then no team can complain. If the Chiefs and Crusaders play each other twice again in 2024 (they did this year) then clearly the organisers aren't doing that.
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@mariner4life both those comps and america sports that also have "uneven" draws all have larger draws, more games, so each game is a smaller percent of your season so more chance to even out, things like the AFL and American sports also have drafts specifically designed to give teams at the bottom of the ladder one year and chance to improve the next year
Super rugby is a short season compared to those and so, in my opinion, the unevenness can effect things, the example ive seen come up before is the sharks making the final after only playing i think 3 of the NZ teams and then getting a hiding
but...i did say that's the way its been for a while and every team will have "good" and "bad" draws from years to year
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
Super rugby is a short season compared to those and so, in my opinion, the unevenness can effect things,
On the other hand Super Rugby now also has 8 teams out of 12 teams making the playoffs - which is a much higher % than AFL or NRL.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
Super rugby is a short season compared to those and so, in my opinion, the unevenness can effect things,
On the other hand Super Rugby now also has 8 teams out of 12 teams making the playoffs - which is a much higher % than AFL or NRL.
@KiwiMurph and on the other other hand...i dont see that as good, i think 6 is more than enough for the size of the comp
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@KiwiMurph and on the other other hand...i dont see that as good, i think 6 is more than enough for the size of the comp
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph and on the other other hand...i dont see that as good, i think 6 is more than enough for the size of the comp
That's a different argument. I'm saying 8 out of 12 teams making the playoffs minimises the impact of uneven draws.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph and on the other other hand...i dont see that as good, i think 6 is more than enough for the size of the comp
That's a different argument. I'm saying 8 out of 12 teams making the playoffs minimises the impact of uneven draws.
@KiwiMurph i guess so...if you've lost to the sader twice already and you do again in the finals then thats fair enough, just my personal dislike, dont think it looks good form the outside, rather than having an even draw team can make the playoffs (like the highlanders have) with a negative win loss record...so the end result might even out...just doesnt feel good to me
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@KiwiMurph i guess so...if you've lost to the sader twice already and you do again in the finals then thats fair enough, just my personal dislike, dont think it looks good form the outside, rather than having an even draw team can make the playoffs (like the highlanders have) with a negative win loss record...so the end result might even out...just doesnt feel good to me
@Kiwiwomble I hear you but I think Super Rugby is an easy target for piling on.
The NPC this year had an uneven draw (not every team played every team) and 8 playoff spots amongst 14 teams (those 8 spots divided by conference where only 4 could make it from each 7 team conference) and no one said too much.
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@Kiwiwomble I hear you but I think Super Rugby is an easy target for piling on.
The NPC this year had an uneven draw (not every team played every team) and 8 playoff spots amongst 14 teams (those 8 spots divided by conference where only 4 could make it from each 7 team conference) and no one said too much.
@KiwiMurph was a bit of grumbling once people realised the finals were still with the same teams in odds/evens...I think that could easily be fixed and get rid of the storm week if they do it like that.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseas@ARHS said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseasI would add Leroy Carter who was outstanding for the Bay, and the Counties 1st Five.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseas@ARHS said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseasJGB only looked overseas when he was dropped and couldn't find another NZ team. Sheck I felt was a bit unlucky. But maybe he needs another year of performing well at NPC level as starting TH for Wellington. Hes still only 22 so plenty of time still
O'Reilly was definitely in the unlucky category. Unsure why he was dropped. Maybe coaches don't like his attitude as he performed well for the Canes when he played last year
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@ARHS said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseasI would add Leroy Carter who was outstanding for the Bay, and the Counties 1st Five.
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@ARHS said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseasJGB only looked overseas when he was dropped and couldn't find another NZ team. Sheck I felt was a bit unlucky. But maybe he needs another year of performing well at NPC level as starting TH for Wellington. Hes still only 22 so plenty of time still
O'Reilly was definitely in the unlucky category. Unsure why he was dropped. Maybe coaches don't like his attitude as he performed well for the Canes when he played last year
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2023:
@ARHS said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseasJGB only looked overseas when he was dropped and couldn't find another NZ team. Sheck I felt was a bit unlucky. But maybe he needs another year of performing well at NPC level as starting TH for Wellington. Hes still only 22 so plenty of time still
O'Reilly was definitely in the unlucky category. Unsure why he was dropped. Maybe coaches don't like his attitude as he performed well for the Canes when he played last year
I was surprised O'Reilly missed out to , must be in attitude surely, as he seemed to do ok on field.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I would add the following as unlucky -mostly wider squad candidates, or looking elsewhere???
Fullback: T Robinson, J Trainor, D Wild,
Wing: H Murray, Ed Fidow (MP?), T Cook-Savage
Centre: D Rona R Nu'u Lalomilo
10's: L Cashmore
9's:L Campbell, R Judd, L Milo-Harris
Loosies: J Melvin, A Brash, O Haig
Lock: H Dalzell, H Burr, J Bekhuis, L Hallam-Eames
Prop: J Lay, R Cobb, P Sheck, S Calder
Hooker: I Moananu, J O'Reilly,R JacksonNone of these are hugely unlucky in my view - bar perhaps James O'Reilly
Noted that JGB, NMS, Tua and Li all signed overseas@ARHS I think Heremaia Murray suffered a little when Northland had thier slump mid season after a stellar first few games, all our good tries he had a crucial touch in.
I think his chance will come and had he been given one now, he'd have looked comfortable at the next level too, I do wish he'd been given time at his preferred spot in the mid field though.
