All Blacks vs Wales
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
Reece is a better winger than Jordan, offers a lot more physicality which Jordan lacks.
5kg heavier, much stronger & dominant tackler, with a ridiculous work-rate off the ball.
Jordan is a fullback and isn't nearly as effective on the wing.
Bollocks from start to finish.
Jordan is close on 100kgs and Sevu is around 90kgs. Seriously, you only have to look at them to see that Jordan is much bigger.
A prime example of how believing bogus internet weights will lead to totally fucked-up analysis!!!!!!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordan is close on 100kgs and Sevu is around 90kgs. Seriously, you only have to look at them to see that Jordan is much bigger
Therefore... Sevu is faster? Sweet - stick him on the wing.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
Reece is a better winger than Jordan, offers a lot more physicality which Jordan lacks.
5kg heavier, much stronger & dominant tackler, with a ridiculous work-rate off the ball.
Jordan is a fullback and isn't nearly as effective on the wing.
Bollocks from start to finish.
Jordan is close on 100kgs and Sevu is around 90kgs. Seriously, you only have to look at them to see that Jordan is much bigger.
A prime example of how believing bogus internet weights will lead to totally fucked-up analysis!!!!!!
@Chris-B I’d say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if you’ve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
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In regard to the team in the OP:
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Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
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Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
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I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
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Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
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Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
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I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
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@Chris-B I’d say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if you’ve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
@ACT-Crusader Your latter part is exactly right.
But, Will is four inches taller than Sevu and a solid unit.
Piri Weepu was the same height as Sevu and has an official playing weight of 96kgs. In his latter playing days he might have got close to 100kgs.
Sevu is no Piri.
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I really like what Reece brings to the table but Jordan's ceiling is quite a bit higher. I'm expecting him to finish his career as one of our top try scorers. Jordan starting with Reece on the bench would be ideal for the RWC. Reece can wreck some havoc in the final 20 against tiring teams.
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I really like what Reece brings to the table but Jordan's ceiling is quite a bit higher. I'm expecting him to finish his career as one of our top try scorers. Jordan starting with Reece on the bench would be ideal for the RWC. Reece can wreck some havoc in the final 20 against tiring teams.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I really like what Reece brings to the table but Jordan's ceiling is quite a bit higher. I'm expecting him to finish his career as one of our top try scorers. Jordan starting with Reece on the bench would be ideal for the RWC. Reece can wreck some havoc in the final 20 against tiring teams.
I think that post may quote one from the start of the season almost word for word.
Nothing has changed.
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@Crucial what, me repeating myself over and over again? Never!!
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Crucial what, me repeating myself over and over again? Never!!
Nah, wouldn't know if the OP I referred to was yours, just that I had read that before.
There was a short discussion on whether Reece was a better option as starter or finisher. This was pre Clarke being given and extended run.
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I really like what Reece brings to the table but Jordan's ceiling is quite a bit higher. I'm expecting him to finish his career as one of our top try scorers. Jordan starting with Reece on the bench would be ideal for the RWC. Reece can wreck some havoc in the final 20 against tiring teams.
@No-Quarter Yeah - I don't think it's very close between Will and Sevu and last Saturday's game didn't change my view.
If Sevu makes the starting XV at RWC I think it will be on the other wing, where Clarke is currently a bit one (well two) dimensional. He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack. That attacking power is a point of difference, though.
After RWC I'm keen to see Will transition to fullback and Jordie to 2nd five. I've got more sympathy for the idea of keeping Jordie at fullback in this cycle. Wouldn't mind seeing ALB tried at 2nd five, but last week's game suggests he's earmarked as a centre.
All going well, I particularly wouldn't mind us finishing this week's game with 11. Rieko, 12. Jordie, 13. ALB, 14. Sevu, 15. Beaudy.
I will incur the wrath of the Mariner though!
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@No-Quarter Yeah - I don't think it's very close between Will and Sevu and last Saturday's game didn't change my view.
If Sevu makes the starting XV at RWC I think it will be on the other wing, where Clarke is currently a bit one (well two) dimensional. He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack. That attacking power is a point of difference, though.
After RWC I'm keen to see Will transition to fullback and Jordie to 2nd five. I've got more sympathy for the idea of keeping Jordie at fullback in this cycle. Wouldn't mind seeing ALB tried at 2nd five, but last week's game suggests he's earmarked as a centre.
All going well, I particularly wouldn't mind us finishing this week's game with 11. Rieko, 12. Jordie, 13. ALB, 14. Sevu, 15. Beaudy.
I will incur the wrath of the Mariner though!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter Yeah - I don't think it's very close between Will and Sevu and last Saturday's game didn't change my view.
If Sevu makes the starting XV at RWC I think it will be on the other wing, where Clarke is currently a bit one (well two) dimensional. He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack. That attacking power is a point of difference, though.
After RWC I'm keen to see Will transition to fullback and Jordie to 2nd five. I've got more sympathy for the idea of keeping Jordie at fullback in this cycle. Wouldn't mind seeing ALB tried at 2nd five, but last week's game suggests he's earmarked as a centre.
All going well, I particularly wouldn't mind us finishing this week's game with 11. Rieko, 12. Jordie, 13. ALB, 14. Sevu, 15. Beaudy.
I will incur the wrath of the Mariner though!
Clarke still has work to do as you’ve noted but if he keeps developing he’ll be the 11 at RWC. There is no way they’re moving Rieko back to 11. They’ve invested too much and he’s developed to a legit 13 with some work ons.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter Yeah - I don't think it's very close between Will and Sevu and last Saturday's game didn't change my view.
If Sevu makes the starting XV at RWC I think it will be on the other wing, where Clarke is currently a bit one (well two) dimensional. He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack. That attacking power is a point of difference, though.
After RWC I'm keen to see Will transition to fullback and Jordie to 2nd five. I've got more sympathy for the idea of keeping Jordie at fullback in this cycle. Wouldn't mind seeing ALB tried at 2nd five, but last week's game suggests he's earmarked as a centre.
All going well, I particularly wouldn't mind us finishing this week's game with 11. Rieko, 12. Jordie, 13. ALB, 14. Sevu, 15. Beaudy.
I will incur the wrath of the Mariner though!
Clarke still has work to do as you’ve noted but if he keeps developing he’ll be the 11 at RWC. There is no way they’re moving Rieko back to 11. They’ve invested too much and he’s developed to a legit 13 with some work ons.
@TheMojoman You may well be right, but I think that change isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
ALB offers a genuine alternative as a test 13, which we haven't previously had this season - and I think would eliminate a few work-ons.
If they really shift Jordie to 12, he'd potentially provide more midfield thrust.....
Next few weeks will be quite telling.
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I reckon they will want two midfield combos to call on should injuries hit - Havili/Ioane and Jordie/ALB could be the possibilities. Or a combination of them.
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@Chris-B I’d say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if you’ve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B I’d say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if you’ve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
I think a lot of weight above his shoulders too.
That guy has the biggest melon I’ve seen on any AB since Zinzan Brooke.
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@Chris-B I’d say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if you’ve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B I’d say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if you’ve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if the others even follow rugby, Sevu is absolutely jacked.
He's basically the Fijian version of Laumape, his dimensions are very similar.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
Sami’s throws were off in Saturday. Lucky BBBR try wasn’t cancelled for crooked throw. Even TJ noticed that and a second one, later in first H, I think.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
Sami’s throws were off in Saturday. Lucky BBBR try wasn’t cancelled for crooked throw. Even TJ noticed that and a second one, later in first H, I think.
Funny how biased we can be - whenever Taylor doesn't connect with a jumper, I scream at him for being useless. When Sami was missing them on the w/e, I was screaming at that useless tit Vai'i :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
Yawn. This discussion has been done to death.
The one game statements are valid in that he has played one start at 12 in a test (against average opponents)
The past knowledge is pretty old at NPC and pretty average at Super.
I think everyone agrees that he has potential to claim the job but the annointing as saviour based on one performance is at odds to how others get judged. We’ve all seen one good performance players come and go. Even DH has played good games at 12.
Give it time. The air of desperation to be proven right for years of harping is high.
Still think Ardie would be better. -
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
But he’ll be using those attributes against midfielders who have specialised in those positions, and not just at lower levels. Most of them are pretty big units themselves, if not as tall. Farrell and Watkin are of a similar weight and Tuilagi isn’t going to be phased by Jordie’s size. He won’t be able to dominate like he did against Aus I suspect,
