All Blacks vs Wales
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Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
Won't be the first time
But I think he has earned another shot at 12 and we don't really have any other options anyway.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
It won't be clear if he doesn't play him
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
It won't be clear if he doesn't play him
I wish I'd said that.... :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
And if he does…?
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Yeah I’m not necessarily a fan of either above the other , but I did think initially when Richie came in, his footwork before the line gave us a point of difference and seemed to make defences hesitate a bit more .
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@JC
That was his favourite position in younger days. -
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
It won't be clear if he doesn't play him
I wish I'd said that.... :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
It won't be clear if he doesn't play him
I wish I'd said that.... :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
Repetition is our way
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
And if he does…?
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
And if he does…?
He's at least smart enough to see if he's onto a good thing or not
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
@Victor-Meldrew it was by far the best performance in the 12 jersey since Nonu I would say.
We need to explore this option further, and I am sure we will, it does depend on what the team tactics and needs are for each individual game over the next 3 weeks.
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@Victor-Meldrew it was by far the best performance in the 12 jersey since Nonu I would say.
We need to explore this option further, and I am sure we will, it does depend on what the team tactics and needs are for each individual game over the next 3 weeks.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew it was by far the best performance in the 12 jersey since Nonu I would say.
We need to explore this option further, and I am sure we will, it does depend on what the team tactics and needs are for each individual game over the next 3 weeks.
I'm sure he'll get plenty of time there.
As I've said further up the thread, Foster takes a low-risk approach (may not agree with it, but it isn't an entirely stupid approach) but with DH & ALB back that risk has been minimised
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I want to see more of Mounga 10 Jordie 12 Beaudy 15. It worked really well Bledisloe 2.
I agree, Beauden and Mo'unga finally started complimenting each other rather than getting in each others way. I'd like to see that continue, as with those two plus Jordie on the field we have so many different points of attack. You get the likes of Clarke, Jordan, Reece, Rieko running off them and that is a bloody handful to try and defend.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I want to see more of Mounga 10 Jordie 12 Beaudy 15. It worked really well Bledisloe 2.
The issue at the moment with that set up is the bench for both cover and impact without Jordan available.
If Mounga goes off and BB goes to 10 you are forced to move JB which disrupts the whole 'ideal' structure. (BB, DH, JB has been tried and wasn't that good). The other option is to have 15 cover on the bench so the BB, JB combo can have a shot. At the moment that would be Perofeta, who looked well out of his depth against Japan.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I want to see more of Mounga 10 Jordie 12 Beaudy 15. It worked really well Bledisloe 2.
The issue at the moment with that set up is the bench for both cover and impact without Jordan available.
If Mounga goes off and BB goes to 10 you are forced to move JB which disrupts the whole 'ideal' structure. (BB, DH, JB has been tried and wasn't that good). The other option is to have 15 cover on the bench so the BB, JB combo can have a shot. At the moment that would be Perofeta, who looked well out of his depth against Japan.
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Yep you have DH and ALB on the bench and you have all positions well covered.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Crucial Havili can also cover 15 and he'll likely be on the bench anyway.
I did think of that but I doubt very much that after seasons of training as a specialist 12 he will be viewed seriously as covering a position that he hasn't played in a long time. If it was in a crisis then absolutely, but as a planned bench option? I'm not so sure.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordie covers wing again eh?
I realise that Rieko would be the first option.
Rieko, Beauden, ALB, DH, almost anyone would be better options on the wing haha. God that was a failed experiment with Jordie.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordie covers wing again eh?
I realise that Rieko would be the first option.
Rieko, Beauden, ALB, DH, almost anyone would be better options on the wing haha. God that was a failed experiment with Jordie.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordie covers wing again eh?
I realise that Rieko would be the first option.
Rieko, Beauden, ALB, DH, almost anyone would be better options on the wing haha. God that was a failed experiment with Jordie.
You mean like this game where he scored 4 tries at wing?
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2305Funny thing was that he was completely lost, kept asking DMac where he should be but ended up being the top tryscorer.
I was at the game and the animated 'discussions' he and DMac were having in the back field were quite funny to watch
