Orlando shooting + terrorism thread

Rancid Schnitzel

Some interesting remarks here: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/28/radical-islam-was-brexits-elephant-in-the-room'>http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/28/radical-islam-was-brexits-elephant-in-the-room</a>
 
 
The beauty of an uprising like the Brexit vote is that it makes the political and media elites who govern our lives look like fools.
Brexit was no Haitian, Cuban or French Revolution, nor was it the Great Indian â€œMutinyâ€ of 1857. But it did demonstrate the power of the working class over elites, who showed they were cut off from reality.
 
The three main political parties of Britain endorsed the UK remaining in the European Union. They were backed by big business. Two hundred of Great Britainâ€s top business leaders called on the public to vote to stay in the EU.
 
Meanwhile, labour leaders representing 52 of the country's largest trade unions, threw their lot in with the elites.
Leading up to the June 23 vote, virtually every pollster and pundit predicted the UK would vote to â€œremainâ€ within the EU. Thus the â€œleaveâ€ victory was a shock for the political and media elites.
Appeals by 23 British Nobel Prize winners and 300 academics fell on deaf ears as the UKâ€s previously side-lined working class voted to raise the â€œGates of Viennaâ€ and stop their country from being swamped by refugees, camped on the other side of the English Channel in France.
 
The so-called, riff-raff that the leftist Labour Party had taken for granted as it appeased ethnic voters, came out to exercise their rights and took the elites by surprise.
The veteran leftist, author and filmmaker Tariq Ali labelled the EU as â€œCuckoo Landâ€, saying Britain was better off without it. The Latin American TV network TeleSur quoted Ali branding the recent EU refugee deal with Turkey as â€œsqualidâ€.
In the once-thriving mining town of Barnsley, where 70% of the population voted to leave the European Union, one middle-aged man summed it up as he spoke to Britainâ€s ITV network: â€œItâ€s to stop the Muslims from coming into this country. Simple as that.â€
Few others dared to be so explicit. But neither before nor after the Brexit vote has the political and media elite dared to discuss the elephant in the room â€“ radical Islam.
The fear of being labelled racist may silence many for now. But in the future there will be an ultra right-wing backlash in which innocent Muslims may well suffer.
I remember the fallout when former British foreign secretary Jack Straw in 2006 asked one of his constituents to remove her burka while speaking to him. He was accused of â€œthinly veiled racismâ€ and his fate gave the elites one of many cues to tiptoe around such issues.
 
But trust ordinary Britons to be appalled at how their country was being reshaped to accommodate medieval values, not imported by Muslim immigrants, but entrenched in the values their British-born children were being taught at school.
 
The UK is not alone. From India to Myanmar; France to the Central African Republic, ordinary people are angry at Islamism.
As as a result, innocent Muslims suffer while their radical leaders gloat at this â€œproofâ€ of their predictions that the â€˜â€œkuffarâ€, non-Muslims, are enemies of Islam.
If Muslim leaders do not acknowledge the flaunting of radical Islam on the streets and in the workplaces of Europeâ€s cities, then Brexit is just the beginning.
Is blocking off streets in Paris and Delhi for Friday prayers the best way for Muslims to display our faith? Itâ€s time to take stock, but is anyone listening?

Baron Silas Greenback

SO we move into the phase of defending Islam by referring to Christianity. Tis ever the last resort of the Islam apologists.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593234" data-time="1467351915">
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SO we move into the phase of defending Islam by referring to Christianity. Tis ever the last resort of the Islam apologists.
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Just so I'm clear, which bit of
 
Christianity used to be where Islam is now & 200-300 years ago it reformed internally & we are now in place where most Christians are Christian-lite, as educational standards, secure states, the rule of law & so on have removed the need for a strong church. 
 
makes you so angry & outraged? If anything I thought you'd be stoked by that, Christianity is a whole 300 years more evolved and superior to Islam. Do you think its factually incorrect? Maybe yoiu think that while Christians could move from burning heritics alive thats beyond the sort of people who practice Islam?

reprobate

Oh for Christ's sake. They are both religions, of course comparisons come up. 
Avoiding actual points and trying to belittle arguments without providing any substance at all in opposition: the last refuge of the ideologue.

Baron Silas Greenback

Oh good you came up with a new pejorative term.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="593313" data-time="1467362726">
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Just so I'm clear, which bit of
 
Christianity used to be where Islam is now & 200-300 years ago it reformed internally & we are now in place where most Christians are Christian-lite, as educational standards, secure states, the rule of law & so on have removed the need for a strong church. 
 
makes you so angry & outraged? If anything I thought you'd be stoked by that, Christianity is a whole 300 years more evolved and superior to Islam. Do you think its factually incorrect? Maybe yoiu think that while Christians could move from burning heritics alive thats beyond the sort of people who practice Islam? 
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So you just making stuff again? Ok... this is the part where I just ignore you gnawing and ranting at the straw man.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="593069" data-time="1467273174">
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I'm trying to get my head around what the argument is here.
 
BSG, myself and a few others say Islam is a barbaric, hateful ideology that promotes sexism, homophobia and racism. That is categorically a fact. It is written in the Koran. There is just no debating that.
 
Others argue against us by saying that not all Muslims practice those specific parts of Islam, so don't tar all Muslims with the same brush. They also claim the "majority" of Muslims are like this. I think that is a generalisation, which is why I provided the Saudi Arabia example. Nobody can tell me what each and every Muslim thinks, and I don't presume to know either. Some follow it to the letter, some don't. It's fair to say that most in Western countries don't actively practice the parts that are against the law. Great.
 
But none of that changes the fact that Islam is a barbaric, hateful ideology that promotes sexism, homophobia and racism.
 
So we're in this big debate but we are arguing points that are not mutually exclusive. Both are true. Islam is an awful ideology, AND not all Muslims practice the really bad parts of it.
 
That's not that difficult to understand is it?
 
Of course if you criticise Islam then plenty of Muslims will take offence. But that's their problem. I criticise people's ideas at work on a regular basis, I'm sure some of them take offense, but that's their problem, I'm not letting them do retarded shit that makes so sense because I don't want to offend them. You have the right to have your ideas, but your ideas themselves don't have rights and are open to criticism. Why does religion, and in particular Islam get such a free pass?
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This was such a good post, they had to move the goal posts and revert to plan B.. talk about Christianity and how bad that was.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593360" data-time="1467365654">
Oh good you came up with a new pejorative term.</blockquote>
As opposed to you sticking with your constant refrain of apologist eh.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593364" data-time="1467365879">
This was such a good post, they had to move the goal posts and revert to plan B.. talk about Christianity and how bad that was.</blockquote>
You are delusional. Pretty much everybody complimented the post.

reprobate

Deleted duplicate

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="593379" data-time="1467368739">
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You are delusional. Pretty much everybody complimented the post.
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Yes... and then you moved the goal post to all religion. So predictable.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="593378" data-time="1467368481">
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As opposed to you sticking with your constant refrain of apologist eh.
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Oh so now you get annoyed about pejorative terms? Maybe if you hadnt decided to make this thread about posters and not about the topic (post 78) . Maybe if you had not started throwing around the term bigot ... then I would have refrained from stating the apologist left wing regressive that you are?
That is the problem with regressives, they love to kick off the insults.. and then play the victim.
 
And lets not forget you just completely made up a false narrative to argue against. What was that about delusional again?
 
A reminder of your delusions
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">you cross the line between attacking the doctrine and the people more often than not, you frequently make blanket statements on muslims
 
</blockquote>

jegga

A few Islamic countries are regressing if anything, Iran , Afghanistan and the arseclowns running Turkey are dragging it further away from Ataturks vision of a secular state . On the plus side they seem to have finally decided to fight Isis though.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593423" data-time="1467415721">
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Yes... and then you moved the goal post to all religion. So predictable.
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moved what goal posts? with other people and other posts, NQ's for example, it is a discussion with multiple points of view. that was a good post, there were interesting and valid points in it, acknowledged by various people, who then also added their own points and discussed aspects of it.
 
as opposed to with you, where it is all name-calling and ranting and no actual points.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593424" data-time="1467415892">
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Oh so now you get annoyed about pejorative terms? Maybe if you hadnt decided to make this thread about posters and not about the topic (post 78) . Maybe if you had not started throwing around the term bigot ... then I would have refrained from stating the apologist left wing regressive that you are?
That is the problem with regressives, they love to kick off the insults.. and then play the victim.
 
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nope, i'm still not annoyed - not sure why you keep thinking i am. also sure as shit not a victim. just, once again, pointing out your hypocrisy. 
 
ranting and name-calling is how you approach everything, and trying to claim that you wouldn't have 'but he started it' it is pretty funny - if maybe a touch childish.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="593431" data-time="1467418882">
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moved what goal posts? with other people and other posts, NQ's for example, it is a discussion with multiple points of view. that was a good post, there were interesting and valid points in it, acknowledged by various people, who then also added their own points and discussed aspects of it.
 
as opposed to with you, where it is all name-calling and ranting and no actual points.
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I will be happy to answer, once you admit your false narrative and made up bullshit. or at least actually answer my query for proof of your assertion.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
you cross the line between attacking the doctrine and the people more often than not, you frequently make blanket statements on muslims
 
</blockquote>
 
I know it is the usual regressive left way to throw out false narratives and accusations and just hope they dont get called on them.. 
 
I made a point, and unlike you it was actually about a topic and not a poster. You then decided to started yelling bigot!
 
You don't have to agree with the point, but it was incredibly illustrative that in response, you didn't attack the point, you attacked me. And then you have the cheek to accuse me of name calling.. .. you think you should be allowed to use pejorative terms and nobody else?.. or just your regressive left mates? And then you call me a hypocrite.. lol

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="593432" data-time="1467419275">
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nope, i'm still not annoyed - not sure why you keep thinking i am. also sure as shit not a victim. just, once again, pointing out your hypocrisy. 
 
ranting and name-calling is how you approach everything, and trying to claim that you wouldn't have 'but he started it' it is pretty funny - if maybe a touch childish.
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I dont think I will take advice on who is childish children from the dishonest regressive left....

Baron Silas Greenback

How about this.. you dont post about me.. and I wont post about you. Surely that would be best.. in fact it would have been good about 70 posts ago...

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593433" data-time="1467419402">
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I will be happy to answer, once you admit your false narrative and made up bullshit. or at least actually answer my query for proof of your assertion.
 
I know it is the usual regressive left way to throw out false narratives and accusations and just hope they dont get called on them.. 
 
I made a point, and unlike you it was actually about a topic and not a poster. You then decided to started yelling bigot!
 
You don't have to agree with the point, but it was incredibly illustrative that in response, you didn't attack the point, you attacked me. And then you have the cheek to accuse me of name calling.. .. you think you should be allowed to use pejorative terms and nobody else?.. or just your regressive left mates? And then you call me a hypocrite.. lol
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your point with 'poor muslims', as far as i can tell, was that you didn't feel sorry for normal peaceful muslims living in a western democracy who were being mistreated. you lumped them in with terrorists - the implication was clear: why should i feel sorry for these muslims when other muslims are shooting at / bombing 'our' people. that is bigotry. i'm sorry, but i just don't have a nicer word for it - it isn't name-calling, it's simply descriptive.
 
this is not the first time i have explained this, but you can keep saying that i haven't addressed the point if you like.
 
again, i haven't 'yelled' anything. i'm as calm as can be - i think the things you say are wrong, and i'm not going to stop pointing that out and calling them what they are. letting it go unchallenged would be tantamount to accepting your narrative, which i'm not going to do.

Baron Silas Greenback

I didnt say you had to accept what I have to say. What I am saying is dont make shit up that I never said, that is just dishonest and invalidates your argument, and not tomention the fact you started out just attacking me and not bringing anything to the table otherwise, then when challenged about your lies.. you just double down.. before then playing the victim. 
 
And I could continue being descriptive of what I think you are a regressive Islamic apologist who puts appeasement ahead of common sense. Oh.. I am not calling names... I am simply being descriptive apparently.
 
And you are correct I don't think some hurty words is anywhere near as bad as people being murdered. 
 
And you havent addressed anything about your stupid assertion, I keep quoting it to you... and you still don't reply... why? Because you know it is bullshit. Shall I quote it again for you?
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">you cross the line between attacking the doctrine and the people more often than not, you frequently make blanket statements on muslims
 
</blockquote>

The Silver Fern

Orlando shooting + terrorism thread