Black Caps v England
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@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v England:
For clarity, I'd take Boult in a heartbeat if he was fit. Get another few tests out of him - losing two bowlers in short order and having to play 2 debutants is teh definition of needing a band aid.
I fear we are going to be pumped. Not looking good at all, despite my usual optimism in regard to NZ cricket performances.
Yeah - Stead saying Trent's not ruled out from anything - but, he's fit and available and we're two bowlers down. When would you pick him then?
NZC don't appear to have a hard and fast policy, so pick the best available XI.
NZCC Contracts may come into play in selections.
Stead confirmed that Boult is able to play under his contract but they have chosen to ignore his availability in favour of going down the list further.
I doubt that anyone's contract will give them 'rights' regarding selection.
Selectors probably feel that they need to blood someone else as this situation isn't going away fast and that they want to send the right message to fringe players.Being available does not mean you will be selected over a contracted player I have seen all that stuff before.
What is said to the media is not always what transpires.My understanding is that Boult is contracted and his contract does not stop him playing tests. I will look back for the original press.
I believe he has not got a contract as he turned down the contract.
from this article
New Zealand Cricket has agreed to release Trent Boult from his central contract after the fast bowler requested to spend more time with his family and to make himself available for T20 leagues. His international career is now likely to be "significantly reduced".We respect Trent's position," White said. "He's been completely honest and up-front with us about his reasoning and, while we're sad to be losing him as a fully-contracted player, he leaves with our best wishes and our sincere thanks.
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v England:
For clarity, I'd take Boult in a heartbeat if he was fit. Get another few tests out of him - losing two bowlers in short order and having to play 2 debutants is teh definition of needing a band aid.
I fear we are going to be pumped. Not looking good at all, despite my usual optimism in regard to NZ cricket performances.
Yeah - Stead saying Trent's not ruled out from anything - but, he's fit and available and we're two bowlers down. When would you pick him then?
NZC don't appear to have a hard and fast policy, so pick the best available XI.
NZCC Contracts may come into play in selections.
Stead confirmed that Boult is able to play under his contract but they have chosen to ignore his availability in favour of going down the list further.
I doubt that anyone's contract will give them 'rights' regarding selection.
Selectors probably feel that they need to blood someone else as this situation isn't going away fast and that they want to send the right message to fringe players.Being available does not mean you will be selected over a contracted player I have seen all that stuff before.
What is said to the media is not always what transpires.My understanding is that Boult is contracted and his contract does not stop him playing tests. I will look back for the original press.
I believe he has not got a contract as he turned down the contract.
Yes, I had it wrong from a statement the other day.
He has turned in his central contract and David White said it was on the understanding that centrally contracted players would take precedence.
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@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v England:
For clarity, I'd take Boult in a heartbeat if he was fit. Get another few tests out of him - losing two bowlers in short order and having to play 2 debutants is teh definition of needing a band aid.
I fear we are going to be pumped. Not looking good at all, despite my usual optimism in regard to NZ cricket performances.
Yeah - Stead saying Trent's not ruled out from anything - but, he's fit and available and we're two bowlers down. When would you pick him then?
NZC don't appear to have a hard and fast policy, so pick the best available XI.
NZCC Contracts may come into play in selections.
Stead confirmed that Boult is able to play under his contract but they have chosen to ignore his availability in favour of going down the list further.
I doubt that anyone's contract will give them 'rights' regarding selection.
Selectors probably feel that they need to blood someone else as this situation isn't going away fast and that they want to send the right message to fringe players.Being available does not mean you will be selected over a contracted player I have seen all that stuff before.
What is said to the media is not always what transpires.My understanding is that Boult is contracted and his contract does not stop him playing tests. I will look back for the original press.
I believe he has not got a contract as he turned down the contract.
Yes, I had it wrong from a statement the other day.
He has turned in his central contract and David White said it was on the understanding that centrally contracted players would take precedence.
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Crucial said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v England:
For clarity, I'd take Boult in a heartbeat if he was fit. Get another few tests out of him - losing two bowlers in short order and having to play 2 debutants is teh definition of needing a band aid.
I fear we are going to be pumped. Not looking good at all, despite my usual optimism in regard to NZ cricket performances.
Yeah - Stead saying Trent's not ruled out from anything - but, he's fit and available and we're two bowlers down. When would you pick him then?
NZC don't appear to have a hard and fast policy, so pick the best available XI.
NZCC Contracts may come into play in selections.
Stead confirmed that Boult is able to play under his contract but they have chosen to ignore his availability in favour of going down the list further.
I doubt that anyone's contract will give them 'rights' regarding selection.
Selectors probably feel that they need to blood someone else as this situation isn't going away fast and that they want to send the right message to fringe players.Being available does not mean you will be selected over a contracted player I have seen all that stuff before.
What is said to the media is not always what transpires.My understanding is that Boult is contracted and his contract does not stop him playing tests. I will look back for the original press.
I believe he has not got a contract as he turned down the contract.
Yes, I had it wrong from a statement the other day.
He has turned in his central contract and David White said it was on the understanding that centrally contracted players would take precedence.
Yes it normally is that way and if you give up your contract you understand that is the way.
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Can someone enlighten me what the selectors see in Tickner?
He averages 35 with the ball in first class cricket.
He hasn't impressed with his chances for the Black Caps.
How does he keep getting selected?
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v England:
Can someone enlighten me what the selectors see in Tickner?
He averages 35 with the ball in first class cricket.
He hasn't impressed with his chances for the Black Caps.
How does he keep getting selected?
Yes. Sort of. What would not be obvious from a look at his FC average.
- Poor (statisticsl) start to his FC career, so the headline average is not that relevant.
- Quite good for NZ A.
- More importantly, quite good for NZ A as first change, rather than new ball.
But, make no bones, it will be a stretch for him, on talent. Exacerbated by not slotting in to a settled bowling unit.
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Trent played in the T20 World Cup in November, well after he turned down his contract.
So seems like they don't have a hard and fast rule.
If they had all their centrally contracted test bowlers available I can see why they'd give Trent a miss. But, in this situation?
If they're not picking him for this test, it's pretty hard to see when they would.
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Is Trent actually available? That dodgy Dubai league looks like it finished yesterday. Is he in the country? Can people get through Auckland airport at the moment in a timely predictable manner?
Boult is in a different position to e.g. Colin Munro. Hes not really a freelancer like Munro was. Times have moved on, different landscape for the true elite T20 'freelancer', Boult 's IPL team now own teams and play in 3 or 4 global leagues. He has insurance, medical care etc, but most importantly to us (NZers) he has a boss who will decide his availability.
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Boult will be used for white ball cricket.
I am surprised Sears wasn't selected, unless he is injured.
@Bovidae said in Black Caps v England:
Boult will be used for white ball cricket.
I am surprised Sears wasn't selected, unless he is injured.
Sears was injured last time I bothered to look. He's more of white ball bowler isn't he? Never seen him mentioned in the longer format.
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Is Trent actually available? That dodgy Dubai league looks like it finished yesterday. Is he in the country? Can people get through Auckland airport at the moment in a timely predictable manner?
Boult is in a different position to e.g. Colin Munro. Hes not really a freelancer like Munro was. Times have moved on, different landscape for the true elite T20 'freelancer', Boult 's IPL team now own teams and play in 3 or 4 global leagues. He has insurance, medical care etc, but most importantly to us (NZers) he has a boss who will decide his availability.
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
Is Trent actually available? That dodgy Dubai league looks like it finished yesterday. Is he in the country? Can people get through Auckland airport at the moment in a timely predictable manner?
Boult is in a different position to e.g. Colin Munro. Hes not really a freelancer like Munro was. Times have moved on, different landscape for the true elite T20 'freelancer', Boult 's IPL team now own teams and play in 3 or 4 global leagues. He has insurance, medical care etc, but most importantly to us (NZers) he has a boss who will decide his availability.
Media suggests that he is at home, only 1km from the venue.
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Can someone enlighten me what the selectors see in Tickner?
He averages 35 with the ball in first class cricket.
He hasn't impressed with his chances for the Black Caps.
How does he keep getting selected?
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v England:
Can someone enlighten me what the selectors see in Tickner?
He averages 35 with the ball in first class cricket.
He hasn't impressed with his chances for the Black Caps.
How does he keep getting selected?
Simple, Gary Stead is out of his depth and is easily the most under-qualified coach NZ's had, even Andy Moles had a significantly better CV.
Hesson had interesting people skills, but he had an exceptional nose for a player and understood how to build depth...
One of his most underrated achievements was building two good ODI bowling attacks for the 2015 WC in 3 years (Boult, Southee, Milne, Vettori, Anderson + Mills, Henry, McClenaghan, NcCullum, Neesham). A lot of those guys fell away but you expect to have player churn.
What we didn't do under Stead and was plan ahead. At all.... and we got away with it for a while because 1) Hesson had developed the bulk of the team (including the next options) that Stead took to 2019 World Cup & beyond. 2) a golden generation of players who picked themselves - which coincided with Stead at the helm as they reached playing maturity.
The last 2-3 years have shown Stead actually having to build a team himself, it's patently obvious that he's not up to the task.
Hesson was a coach that gave youngsters a shot to learn and experience at international level games, he would mix and match in certain areas we needed to improve on and make a change as soon as he noticed something wasn't going right... he was an adaptable coach - whereas Stead is a coach that waits for everyone to get old and also just hopes for the best with the team he plays in each game...we win, we win...we lose, we lose type of coach.
He can't make decisive selection calls at the optimal & appropriate time - his selection approach is contradictory in many ways - he persists with one thing, then changes his mind on a whim, see persisting with Munro as an ODI opener throughout 2019 WC before throwing Nicholls in at the last minute possible. Stead has fixed ideas that aren't adaptable depending on different circumstances & he displays no method or consistency in his selections whatsoever.
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It's all very well lumping shit on Stead, but I spent a bit of time watching Super Smash this year (the first time in a long time that I have watched domestic cricket) and the biggest take away I got was the lack of quality players going around. I know it was only T20, but it really disappointed me. I fear we are quickly heading back to the bad old days. If the players aren't there we can't pick them.
I can understand why Boult wasn't picked. He has indicated playing for NZ is no longer his priority. Picking him would be a band aid solution at best.
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There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30.
There is little to pick from once Henry and Jamieson are removed.
It's a quirk of generational talent. For a decade - we had a whole test-teams worth of seam bowling talent that couldn't get a match (McClenaghan, Bennett, Milne, Fergusson, Henry) because of the logjam ahead of them. (Edit. Even someone as fringe as Seth Rance of that era is better than the current options. Although Seth is still playing, but he's getting on)
Now, it will be the opposite, We will probably have 3 or 4 years of a merry-go-round of not-test-standard-talent bowlers elevated for bit to see how they go.
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There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30.
There is little to pick from once Henry and Jamieson are removed.
It's a quirk of generational talent. For a decade - we had a whole test-teams worth of seam bowling talent that couldn't get a match (McClenaghan, Bennett, Milne, Fergusson, Henry) because of the logjam ahead of them. (Edit. Even someone as fringe as Seth Rance of that era is better than the current options. Although Seth is still playing, but he's getting on)
Now, it will be the opposite, We will probably have 3 or 4 years of a merry-go-round of not-test-standard-talent bowlers elevated for bit to see how they go.
@Rapido unfortunately our batting has the same problem.
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It's all very well lumping shit on Stead, but I spent a bit of time watching Super Smash this year (the first time in a long time that I have watched domestic cricket) and the biggest take away I got was the lack of quality players going around. I know it was only T20, but it really disappointed me. I fear we are quickly heading back to the bad old days. If the players aren't there we can't pick them.
I can understand why Boult wasn't picked. He has indicated playing for NZ is no longer his priority. Picking him would be a band aid solution at best.
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:
It's all very well lumping shit on Stead, but I spent a bit of time watching Super Smash this year (the first time in a long time that I have watched domestic cricket) and the biggest take away I got was the lack of quality players going around. I know it was only T20, but it really disappointed me. I fear we are quickly heading back to the bad old days. If the players aren't there we can't pick them.
I can understand why Boult wasn't picked. He has indicated playing for NZ is no longer his priority. Picking him would be a band aid solution at best.
Yeah Totally agree Selections for One are not all on Steads head the Captains and Larsen have massive input.
And I agree I watched the Super Smash this year and I was not impressed with the talent coming though.
That maybe because I am involved with the Underage State Level Teams here and the talent is insane Honestly we could have taken 3 Qld teams to the nationals easily.
So maybe it is that I am spoilt at what I see and coach.
But no use slamming Stead if he has not got the cattle to pick from, he still as coach has to try and win games.
As for Tickler not a great record but he is tall and can bowl 145 plus clicks so I see why they are trying him. -
There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30.
There is little to pick from once Henry and Jamieson are removed.
It's a quirk of generational talent. For a decade - we had a whole test-teams worth of seam bowling talent that couldn't get a match (McClenaghan, Bennett, Milne, Fergusson, Henry) because of the logjam ahead of them. (Edit. Even someone as fringe as Seth Rance of that era is better than the current options. Although Seth is still playing, but he's getting on)
Now, it will be the opposite, We will probably have 3 or 4 years of a merry-go-round of not-test-standard-talent bowlers elevated for bit to see how they go.
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30
wondering where these guys are that you were talking about no more than a month ago?
"Actually, pace is the one bright spot, of the young guys on domestics"
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30
wondering where these guys are that you were talking about no more than a month ago?
"Actually, pace is the one bright spot, of the young guys on domestics"
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30
wondering where these guys are that you were talking about no more than a month ago?
"Actually, pace is the one bright spot, of the young guys on domestics"
Yes to be fair I haven't seen them watching the SS,135ks maybe but no one over 140 Tickner gets it around 145 plus.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30
wondering where these guys are that you were talking about no more than a month ago?
"Actually, pace is the one bright spot, of the young guys on domestics"
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
There just aren't any/many talented seam bowlers in NZ at the moment younger than 30
wondering where these guys are that you were talking about no more than a month ago?
"Actually, pace is the one bright spot, of the young guys on domestics"
Sears injured, Fisher injured. O'Rourke fit (but still too early, least progressed of the 3, would want him in the next A series, if we have one)
