Super Rugby 2023
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Ill post this here. But the lack of crowds is a concern. Hope its a bit better this week. MP looks esp poor after all the hype. But the team is too weak. They manage the occasional win which is good but often are easily beaten. Highlanders too have fallen. So even in the NZ division there are 2 teams that are struggling now
But the biggest disappointment for me was the attitude of the Brumbies to the Crusaders match. They surely had a chance of an upset but couldn't be bothered. But the fcat they had to stand down players for another competition doesn't help the status of super rugby.
I can't see things improving in the short term. I love super rugby and hope it does survive somehow. But so far the issue of uneven teams is a big one that isn't being addressed. And I don't know how this issue can be fixed.
@Winger he has very few actual figures, i thought the highlanders actually looked to have more than we;ve seen over the last few years
something ive learnt after spending years in the UK with football and Aus with AFL...kiwis just dont care about sport as much as other countries, personally i think its at least partially because our rugby comps just dont have the history that those other sports do...and we keep changing the comps we do have
but basically we just dont care, talking to people about afl/football, people will go see their friends teams play....and buy a scarf or beanie...just because they were there. your average kiwi rugby fan (we're not average, we're hard core) wont buy their own teams merch. but there is also memberships, football fans in the uk will commit to going to every home game and several away, thats 20-30 games a year....i havent met anyone that had an otago or highlanders membership since the 90's...your average kiwi just doesnt care like other countries
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
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@Winger he has very few actual figures, i thought the highlanders actually looked to have more than we;ve seen over the last few years
something ive learnt after spending years in the UK with football and Aus with AFL...kiwis just dont care about sport as much as other countries, personally i think its at least partially because our rugby comps just dont have the history that those other sports do...and we keep changing the comps we do have
but basically we just dont care, talking to people about afl/football, people will go see their friends teams play....and buy a scarf or beanie...just because they were there. your average kiwi rugby fan (we're not average, we're hard core) wont buy their own teams merch. but there is also memberships, football fans in the uk will commit to going to every home game and several away, thats 20-30 games a year....i havent met anyone that had an otago or highlanders membership since the 90's...your average kiwi just doesnt care like other countries
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
but basically we just dont care,
But didn't we when SR first started. I was living in the UK and returned home for a visit and had to buy tickets (for a Canes match at the Cake Tin) well in advance. The game was sold out
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@Winger he has very few actual figures, i thought the highlanders actually looked to have more than we;ve seen over the last few years
something ive learnt after spending years in the UK with football and Aus with AFL...kiwis just dont care about sport as much as other countries, personally i think its at least partially because our rugby comps just dont have the history that those other sports do...and we keep changing the comps we do have
but basically we just dont care, talking to people about afl/football, people will go see their friends teams play....and buy a scarf or beanie...just because they were there. your average kiwi rugby fan (we're not average, we're hard core) wont buy their own teams merch. but there is also memberships, football fans in the uk will commit to going to every home game and several away, thats 20-30 games a year....i havent met anyone that had an otago or highlanders membership since the 90's...your average kiwi just doesnt care like other countries
@Kiwiwomble price has alot to do with us buying alot of merch....price to go, price to buy anythign there.
It seems the braodcast income is all that matters, bums on seats is secondary, and time games are aired is a factor.
Entertainment is another, we are bombarded with those fucktard DJ's playing the same tracks over and over at every single break in play rather than just at actual stoppages previously.
People used to go to games, pre 2000s there was still easy 10k+ going to pretty much every NPC game, I know even when we were in the old 2nd div, game day was a big deal, it was the place to be.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
but basically we just dont care,
But didn't we when SR first started. I was living in the UK and returned home for a visit and had to buy tickets (for a Canes match at the Cake Tin) well in advance. The game was sold out
@Winger i think there are lots of factors, cost of living in NZ being a big one, buying tickets and merch fall quickly down the list of priorities
but i also think there was hype, League was huge in the90's and then we started this thing with team names and shit thats competed so people got into it....but then we had teams dominating so things become predictable, the comps spread out so going to away days isn't jumping on a train or bus, its flights and hotels...and then the infoweb ment people could just as easily follow teams from all the big comps around the world
ive been saying for ages, the comps are too shirt too, i met lots of people that have written of seasons after 3-4 losses....nothing to play for so we'll try again next year, get my weekend back
@taniwharugby broadcast deals are obviously where the actual money comes from...we seem to not care that what we're broadcasting is vision of empty stadiums, doesnt exactly scream "the came is cool", if i can change channel and see 80k at an AFL game, i know what im going to sub-consciously think is the "better" game
this might also be better suited to the "state of our game" thread?
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@Winger i think there are lots of factors, cost of living in NZ being a big one, buying tickets and merch fall quickly down the list of priorities
but i also think there was hype, League was huge in the90's and then we started this thing with team names and shit thats competed so people got into it....but then we had teams dominating so things become predictable, the comps spread out so going to away days isn't jumping on a train or bus, its flights and hotels...and then the infoweb ment people could just as easily follow teams from all the big comps around the world
ive been saying for ages, the comps are too shirt too, i met lots of people that have written of seasons after 3-4 losses....nothing to play for so we'll try again next year, get my weekend back
@taniwharugby broadcast deals are obviously where the actual money comes from...we seem to not care that what we're broadcasting is vision of empty stadiums, doesnt exactly scream "the came is cool", if i can change channel and see 80k at an AFL game, i know what im going to sub-consciously think is the "better" game
this might also be better suited to the "state of our game" thread?
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
but then we had teams dominating so things become predictable,
This certainly doesn't help. Esp in recent years. Maybe this year the Crusaders might not win yet again. For once it look a possibility right now due to injuries. But my view is only the Chiefs or Blues might do it. Canes coaches will pick the wrong team. And Brumbies will fade away. Hope Im wrong as SRP need at least one Aussie team to have a serious chance of winning. And I support the Canes
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
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i also think we do ourselves no favours having oversized stadiums, just makes the problems look even worse
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Ill post this here. But the lack of crowds is a concern. Hope its a bit better this week. MP looks esp poor after all the hype. But the team is too weak. They manage the occasional win which is good but often are easily beaten. Highlanders too have fallen. So even in the NZ division there are 2 teams that are struggling now
But the biggest disappointment for me was the attitude of the Brumbies to the Crusaders match. They surely had a chance of an upset but couldn't be bothered. But the fcat they had to stand down players for another competition doesn't help the status of super rugby.
I can't see things improving in the short term. I love super rugby and hope it does survive somehow. But so far the issue of uneven teams is a big one that isn't being addressed. And I don't know how this issue can be fixed.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Still not clicking on the link. I'll just figure the arguments from the thread postings.
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
On the broadcasting v crowds, surely NZR needs to look at compensating grounds with a share of the broadcast money so that they can have cheaper subsidised tickets? But, even the league match I went to this year in Oz was crazy expensive for a club match, I mean $50 for an end seat for a match involving the Warriors is criminal.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
On the broadcasting v crowds, surely NZR needs to look at compensating grounds with a share of the broadcast money so that they can have cheaper subsidised tickets? But, even the league match I went to this year in Oz was crazy expensive for a club match, I mean $50 for an end seat for a match involving the Warriors is criminal.
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
On the broadcasting v crowds, surely NZR needs to look at compensating grounds with a share of the broadcast money so that they can have cheaper subsidised tickets? But, even the league match I went to this year in Oz was crazy expensive for a club match, I mean $50 for an end seat for a match involving the Warriors is criminal.
I disagree about evening up teams, basiically what you suggesting is a draft, because everyone contracts own players. It just stops anyone bothering to develop good young players. I look at Canes after years they now have some good depth at loose forwards and midfield, should they be moving some on?
But then again I thoroughly enjoy the comp, and have since it started in 1996, we have complaints etc, and no doubt there could be improvements, but there not even enough agreeing a any forums etc that agree how it would be done better to show how it could be done.
Now some in Aus will say it should be only an Aus comp, and will tell you how 40,000 or whatever were at a final a couple of years ago, and ignore that there were no crowds as such at all the other games etc, because NZ teams are just bullies and woe is me etc. I bet if Reds were playing Crusaders in the final crowd would of been same. It's same here, I have read why isn't talent spread, it's because some teams (Crusaders a great example) have incredibly good development systems in place, do you say f*** em, don't develop player?
I heard one fella saying look at crowd at Warriors on Sunday 19000-20000 or something compared to rugby night before? Yep well good for Warriors, playing their first home game in 3 years or something, and I seem to remember the numbers back then were a bag of shit.Anyway my rant for Friday morning ,of course comp could be better in some was, I bet most fans of any sport would say same , but I got a full weekend of rugby to watch, both on TV and at grounds (clubs rugby starts here tomorrow) and Canes/Force game at PN, as well as on tv.
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@Stargazer any context? or just a random post about a season 14 years ago?
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@Stargazer any context? or just a random post about a season 14 years ago?
@Kiwiwomble Totally random. They have more posts like that.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
On the broadcasting v crowds, surely NZR needs to look at compensating grounds with a share of the broadcast money so that they can have cheaper subsidised tickets? But, even the league match I went to this year in Oz was crazy expensive for a club match, I mean $50 for an end seat for a match involving the Warriors is criminal.
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
they were Crusaders before they became All Blacks, it's not like they were brought in from elsewhere, how many of them were no-names before they were developed by them? Bridge was a guy didn't even make his school's 1st XV, didn't make any representative teams, was a labourer with no intention to play professionally and didn't get started until he was 21/22, George Bower was a Highlanders discard from their development squad, he was behind several players & unwanted by them - George Bell, Noah Hotham, Christian Lio-Willie, were all unwanted by the Highlanders also!
Also how about some context.
How many are currently mainstays? those players are mostly at Chiefs, Blues, Hurricanes, none of them (not even Richie) would make my All Black starting side going by form of past 2 seasons, & most are just fringe players like Ennor, Bower, etc..
just because someone is a capped player doesn't mean they're better than another who's coming through.
Marino Mikaele Tu'u, Cameron Millar, Folau Fakatava, Ayden Johnstone, Shannon Frizell, Andrew Makalio, Sam Gilbert, Pari Pari Parkinson, Jermaine Ainsley, Daniel Lienert-Brown, Saula Ma'u, Thomas Umaga-Jensen, Aaron Smith, Billy Harmon, Sean Withy, Ethan de Groot, Fabian Holland.
A number of these players 1) could've easily done a job for ABs 2) are already making AB squads, Or 3) will likely see capped in the future.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
they were Crusaders before they became All Blacks, it's not like they were brought in from elsewhere, how many of them were no-names before they were developed by them? Bridge was a guy didn't even make his school's 1st XV, didn't make any representative teams, was a labourer with no intention to play professionally and didn't get started until he was 21/22, George Bower was a Highlanders discard from their development squad, he was behind several players & unwanted by them - George Bell, Noah Hotham, Christian Lio-Willie, were all unwanted by the Highlanders also!
Also how about some context.
How many are currently mainstays? those players are mostly at Chiefs, Blues, Hurricanes, none of them (not even Richie) would make my All Black starting side going by form of past 2 seasons, & most are just fringe players like Ennor, Bower, etc..
just because someone is a capped player doesn't mean they're better than another who's coming through.
Marino Mikaele Tu'u, Cameron Millar, Folau Fakatava, Ayden Johnstone, Shannon Frizell, Andrew Makalio, Sam Gilbert, Pari Pari Parkinson, Jermaine Ainsley, Daniel Lienert-Brown, Saula Ma'u, Thomas Umaga-Jensen, Aaron Smith, Billy Harmon, Sean Withy, Ethan de Groot, Fabian Holland.
A number of these players 1) could've easily done a job for ABs 2) are already making AB squads, Or 3) will likely see capped in the future.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2023:
they were Crusaders before they became All Blacks, it's not like they were brought in from elsewhere, how many of them were no-names before they were developed by them? (Bridge was a guy didn't even make his school's 1st XV, didn't make any representative teams, was a labourer with no intention to play professionally and didn't get started until he was 21/22,
And didn't it fucking show?
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Winger Posting Reason is an insta ban isn't it?
it's not a bad article actually
Actually it's much better than that. It's bang on the money.
We complain about the Herald who are nothing more than NZR's marketing branch and obsequious journos. This is the type of contrarian article we should be supporting. Nothing kills a competition more than predictable (don't look at my tipping) outcomes and one fucking team constantly winning it.
And having the ball in play more actually exacerbates the problem. They're fixing the wrong things at the wrong level.
SR should be competitive between teams.
Tests are the ones needing more time in play to reduce the behemoth turgidity.
On this point, the Crusaders are essentially playing their C team this week and they're still fielding more ABs than the Highlanders. That's fucked up. Clearly their are contracting improvements that can be made that spread the NZ talent around ...
they were Crusaders before they became All Blacks, it's not like they were brought in from elsewhere, how many of them were no-names before they were developed by them? Bridge was a guy didn't even make his school's 1st XV, didn't make any representative teams, was a labourer with no intention to play professionally and didn't get started until he was 21/22, George Bower was a Highlanders discard from their development squad, he was behind several players & unwanted by them - George Bell, Noah Hotham, Christian Lio-Willie, were all unwanted by the Highlanders also!
Also how about some context.
How many are currently mainstays? those players are mostly at Chiefs, Blues, Hurricanes, none of them (not even Richie) would make my All Black starting side going by form of past 2 seasons, & most are just fringe players like Ennor, Bower, etc..
just because someone is a capped player doesn't mean they're better than another who's coming through.
Marino Mikaele Tu'u, Cameron Millar, Folau Fakatava, Ayden Johnstone, Shannon Frizell, Andrew Makalio, Sam Gilbert, Pari Pari Parkinson, Jermaine Ainsley, Daniel Lienert-Brown, Saula Ma'u, Thomas Umaga-Jensen, Aaron Smith, Billy Harmon, Sean Withy, Ethan de Groot, Fabian Holland.
A number of these players 1) could've easily done a job for ABs 2) are already making AB squads, Or 3) will likely see capped in the future.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2023:
Bridge was a guy didn't even make his school's 1st XV, didn't make any representative teams, was a labourer with no intention to play professionally and didn't get started until he was 21/22,
Huh? He made his 1st XV and played for Crusaders U20s.
Also, my post wasn't an attack on the Crusaders, it was on the structure that allows it to happen. Regardless of your list of players the simple fact is a very weakened Crusaders team has more ABs than the Highlanders. If one of the highlighted issues is a weakness in the competition (and as we have to compare everything to the NRL a lack of competitiveness in comparison) then it's a fair point to review the make up of our Super teams.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2023:
Bridge was a guy didn't even make his school's 1st XV, didn't make any representative teams, was a labourer with no intention to play professionally and didn't get started until he was 21/22,
Huh? He made his 1st XV and played for Crusaders U20s.
Also, my post wasn't an attack on the Crusaders, it was on the structure that allows it to happen. Regardless of your list of players the simple fact is a very weakened Crusaders team has more ABs than the Highlanders. If one of the highlighted issues is a weakness in the competition (and as we have to compare everything to the NRL a lack of competitiveness in comparison) then it's a fair point to review the make up of our Super teams.
The Chiefs & Blues have just as many All Blacks in their squads, so why the emphasis on the Crusaders?
