Super Rugby 2024
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@kiwi_expat That article is just regurgitating an earlier Stuff article (already posted in another thread) and adds literally one paragraph, in which Phil Waugh says he wants to discuss a draft with Robinson. No surprise, as a draft favours Australia much more than New Zealand.
You're posting this stuff over and over again, like you're pushing an agenda.
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@Stargazer Think a draft would be good for the comp though. How it work is the hard part.
@friedrugby It's not good at all. Franchises that spend a lot of time, knowledge, energy and money in developing players don't want players developed by them being picked up by other franchises, even less so by Australian franchises. If that would happen, they'll simply develop fewer players or put less money/effort in it and that would be harmful for rugby in NZ. This has already been discussed to death in other threads, so I leave it at this, but most teams go through years that things aren't going as well as they'd hoped and managed to climb out of it through good planning, recruiting and developing players. To see that work undone by things like drafts is not motivating teams to do the necessary work.
Clayton McMillan has already expressed his opinion about this and similar ideas in the media and I know this opinion is shared by other franchises.
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Clayton McMillan doesn't like it because any kid having the option to live and play code in Sydney or Hamilton is probably not gonna choose the Waikato.
hmmmm, Coogeee or Ham East? hmmmm, let me just weigh that up (packs bags)
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I personally don't think there is the money in our game for a draft to be a valid pathway.
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The whole point is that if a draft model was used, Super teams wouldn't be developing the players... That is ultimately where the model comes unstuck. Other than American sports which draft out of the College system, the only other sport which uses a draft is cricket, but that is a very different model.
The cricket model wouldn't work, as a draft would have to take place prior to the NPC due to contract security, which would be a massive floor. The college system is also almost impossible, though it would be kind of cool if say Otago University played Auckland University etc.
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There's two arguments in favour of a draft
- The talent is unevenly spread
- Good players are not playing often enough
Now consider the population bases of the SR sides (numbers are from the NZR in 2019)
Region Population Blues 1.396m Chiefs 1.333m Hurricanes 1.019m Crusaders 0.797m Highlanders 0.337m The problem to me is an uneven spread of pro contracts. 20% of the pro contracts in Dunedin is crazy as is 40% of the pro contracts being in the South Island
That relies on a constant flow of players in one direction
To me the solution is more SR sides in other locations. That would solve the two original problems - uneven spread of talent & good players are not playing enough
It's better than forcing players away from their homes. There is an attrition rate when you do that and some players will opt for NRL in Sydney, Rugby in the south of France etc etc
Then perhaps it's appropriate for some of these SR sides to use the logos, uniforms of NPC sides..
9 or 10 teams would be ideal IMO. Same as the 1st division in the 90's
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There's two arguments in favour of a draft
- The talent is unevenly spread
- Good players are not playing often enough
Now consider the population bases of the SR sides (numbers are from the NZR in 2019)
Region Population Blues 1.396m Chiefs 1.333m Hurricanes 1.019m Crusaders 0.797m Highlanders 0.337m The problem to me is an uneven spread of pro contracts. 20% of the pro contracts in Dunedin is crazy as is 40% of the pro contracts being in the South Island
That relies on a constant flow of players in one direction
To me the solution is more SR sides in other locations. That would solve the two original problems - uneven spread of talent & good players are not playing enough
It's better than forcing players away from their homes. There is an attrition rate when you do that and some players will opt for NRL in Sydney, Rugby in the south of France etc etc
Then perhaps it's appropriate for some of these SR sides to use the logos, uniforms of NPC sides..
9 or 10 teams would be ideal IMO. Same as the 1st division in the 90's
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@Duluth If you add more New Zealand teams, then you'd need to extend the season and abolish the NPC... maybe instead have a national club cup competition like the FA Cup.
@friedrugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
you'd need to extend the season and abolish the NPC
Yes
Consider it a merger
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Clayton McMillan doesn't like it because any kid having the option to live and play code in Sydney or Hamilton is probably not gonna choose the Waikato.
hmmmm, Coogeee or Ham East? hmmmm, let me just weigh that up (packs bags)
@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
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@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
no shit?
I don't get the point
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@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
@Bovidae Players in NZ also don't hesitate to move franchises to get more playing opportunities. That's how the likes of Waisake Naholo and Fekitoa ended up at the Highlanders, Josh Ioane at the Chiefs, Kini Naholo at the Hurricanes, more players at the HIghlanders (Makalio, Hunt), to name a few.
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The whole point is that if a draft model was used, Super teams wouldn't be developing the players... That is ultimately where the model comes unstuck. Other than American sports which draft out of the College system, the only other sport which uses a draft is cricket, but that is a very different model.
The cricket model wouldn't work, as a draft would have to take place prior to the NPC due to contract security, which would be a massive floor. The college system is also almost impossible, though it would be kind of cool if say Otago University played Auckland University etc.
@friedrugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
Other than American sports which draft out of the College system, the only other sport which uses a draft is cricket, but that is a very different model.
AFL has a very successful draft out of teams development systems
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@Stargazer The NPC is fucked though, let's be fair. Most of the unions barely break even, and despite what a few diehard fans will say, no one watches it. More diehard Highlanders fans than Otago fans etc.
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@Stargazer The NPC is fucked though, let's be fair. Most of the unions barely break even, and despite what a few diehard fans will say, no one watches it. More diehard Highlanders fans than Otago fans etc.
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@Stargazer The NPC is fucked though, let's be fair. Most of the unions barely break even, and despite what a few diehard fans will say, no one watches it. More diehard Highlanders fans than Otago fans etc.
@friedrugby i wonder if otago and southland fans are more interested in revitalising the NPC because we've been through time where theyve actually "gone under" or had to be bailed out so know that just carrying on how we are isn't guaranteed
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@friedrugby i wonder if otago and southland fans are more interested in revitalising the NPC because we've been through time where theyve actually "gone under" or had to be bailed out so know that just carrying on how we are isn't guaranteed
@Kiwiwomble The problem with the NPC, is that it isn't attractive to the casual fan... realistically they made a mistake when they first professionalized rugby by going down the SR route. Would have been better to keep it with the three divisions, and chances are, the finances would naturally have sorted themselves out as the money grew.
There are now a generation of fans who grew up supporting the Highlanders, not Otago/Southland etc. Their heroes are Aaron Smith and Waisake Naholo, not Josh Renton and Michael Collins.
Revitalising the NPC by abolishing Super Rugby wouldn't work.
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@Stargazer Evidence of what? You aren't honestly going to try claim more people like the NPC than Super Rugby. Look at the crowd sizes. Even the unions which don't have Super teams get pretty piss poor crowds.
@friedrugby I think you are generalising too much and you can't prove it either. There are plenty of provinces with decent crowds, particularly the provinces not based in the SR main centres. And those that are based in SR main centres may just be playing in venues that are too big (and expensive) for NPC.
And no, I can't prove it, but am going by who I know and talk to (and that's quite a few), people in the provinces without a SR base are far more supportive of their NPC team than you think. And they'd hate to lose NPC, because that's where they see their team that really represents them with a majority of local players playing for the team. SR teams simply don't offer that level of tribal affiliation in those provinces. In their NPC team, they see the players that went to their school or play for their club. Players they may know personally, or their relatives. That's important for a lot of people.
Also, as has been explained multiple times already, you shouldn't just look at crowd numbers. It's a bad yard stick for a competitions success. You should include viewer numbers, which unfortunately aren't made public.
